Does Science Explain Anything?

Correct. And unless the trumpet player was playing random notes, the scientists would discover “reasons” like major and minor scales to explain why certain notes were played. What the analogy misses is the creativity of the human composer, which is something that doesn’t factor into explanations of natural phenomenon. (Nature isn’t an intelligent actor; it does what it does.)

A sonnet also follows rules. They’re pretty intricate, actually. Scientists could easily discover the “laws” that govern sonnets and scales (both are based on math), but such discoveries aren’t “inventing laws.” The math is the math. Where the analogy fails, once again, is comparing “blind” natural forces to a creative human agent.

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Alex discusses some of these rules for sonnets in the second video. But in the first video, the analogy we are talking about the notes being played lighting up the lightbulb with a certain color and brightness. But even here the major and minor scales you refer to are just more refined descriptive statements. A musical scale is a specific sequence of frequency ratios ordered by pitch. How does piling on more descriptive statements lead to an explanation of why?

The light blinking is not random anymore than planetary orbits are random. We know they follow elliptical paths (Kepler’s laws) but again, these are descriptive. This is what planets do, not an actual explanation of why. It is a mathematical description. Why is this planet over here in June? Because it follows an elliptical orbit. That is not an explanation. That is confusing the map (description) with the territory (the ontological reality) .

Also, “It does what it does” is hardly an explanation of anything. It doesn’t tell us why anything does what it does. It just makes another descriptive observation. This seems more like an admission that science has no explanation or has run out of explanations. Materialism of the gaps.

Alex is certainly aware of the difference between an artifact and a natural substance. Greene pointed out in his response that sonnets are the product of humans. But the analogy does the same work. Knowing a sonnet is in the form of iambic pentameter and describing its rules does not explain what it is.

Blind natural forces is also HUGELY question begging to me. Though we may have some agreement depending on how you define blind. But from my perspective, this is one of the issues we could say is under fire in this analogy. Why is there this astonishing mathematical precision of a composed symphony given a completely blind nature? That nature plays “major and minor scales” (has or operated under perfectly tuned physical laws) is a mystery that needs explaining.

Alex would probably not go this way with me since he is not a Thomist. But nature is not blind to me. Scientific methodology is blind in that it has removed formal and final causality from the world. Bacon and Descartes put blinders on science. It works but it runs us into problems like this.

I think natural substances have both formal and final causes. Nature is filled with teleology and purpose (I am not talking about intelligent design). Natural substances have essences that are ordered towards specific ends. This is the metaphysical reason I find nature to be inherently ordered (regularity) and appearing to follow complex laws. I don’t view the regularity of nature or natural laws as floating rules that magically boss matter around.

Vinnie

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Lets grant for discussion that scientific descriptions such as Kepler, Newton, or GR, do not constitute explanations of orbiting bodies. What then, would be a full explanation that includes the why, and how would one arrive at it? How would such explanations differ according by the question posed, say as between celestial mechanics and epidemiology?

I mean, the elephant in the room is that we have to speak of a “contingent order”, which is an oxymoron to begin with.

Science runs on order before it ever finds any since every experiment rely on the world holding tomorrow the way it held yesterday. Take that away and there’s nothing left to repeat, measure or falsify. So the order is the precondition, it never was a finding and there’s no way around that.

The naturalist account claim that the order becomes a happy accident by assuming blind forces produced it, and those forces are postulated with transcendant properties then quietly moved past questioning. Thing is, a postulate is a picked assumption. It’s just one option chosen among others with nothing behind it. If the forces are necessary, the order inherits the necessity and the mystery hardens into a permanent brute fact. If instead they’re contingent, the question we just fled is waiting at the base which is “why these forces, why not chaos?”

The evidence for the blind base is the very order it was supposed to ground. So obviously there’s a double standard doing quiet work here. “It does what it does” gets to be a legitimate stopping point while Alex and others dig at theists with the ‘who designed the designer’ talking point. But no one escapes the metaphysical and if brute facts are allowed at the base, both Alex and us may stop where we please. If they aren’t, neither of us may. Who gets to stop and who doesn’t is the worldview doing the explaining. That’s about it.

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So just for the record, we don’t have to be able to answer this to point out science is descriptive and does not explain why. That is a separate argument. I am genuinely curious how Alex would answer it as an atheist/agnostic. As a Christian/classical theist I would go this route:

I would go back ~2500 years to Aristotle and reintroduce formal and final causes. I think teleology (final causality) is also the resolution to the problem of induction. I think treating substances as composites with form and matter will help and I would treat biological substances differently than inanimate substances. I think biological substances (e.g. a dog) act holistically towards their own flourishing whereas a planet does not.

We will hit bedrock here but not with mindless particles and forces. The bedrock is a necessary being, an unmoved mover. Planets and their motions are contingent (a mixture of act and potency) so ultimately the answer is God to me. But I think we can describe and explain the turtles at each stage going down more fully in a hylomorphic framework than a purely materialistic one.

Except that brute facts comparison is terrible since “who created God” and variations of that question are sophomoric and EASILY dismissed by anyone competent in philosophy of religion. Classical theists stop where the metaphysical evidence does: at an unmoved mover, a necessary being devoid of potentiality. Asking who created God is like asking what is North of the North Pole. Proponents of scientism just stop where they do because they have to give up. Stopping at a necessary being makes sense. Stopping at contingent mathematical models does not.

Vinnie

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It seems to me that there is another aspect of the question of whether science explains anything that deserves attention.

Perhaps before asking how completely science explains reality, we should clarify what we mean by a scientific explanation and what science actually works with.

Let me try to explain what I mean.

Suppose we want to calculate the motion of the Earth around the Sun. We construct a mathematical model, take into account the gravitational interaction between the Earth and the Sun, include the influence of the Moon and other planets where necessary, and choose the required precision of our calculations.

But the Earth is not subject only to the gravity of these celestial bodies.

There are other stars, distant galaxies, and an enormous range of physical interactions that we do not include individually in a particular calculation. Their influence is not necessarily exactly zero. It may simply be so small, relative to the question we are asking, that omitting it does not significantly affect the required accuracy.

Moreover, we can adjust the level of detail depending on what we want to know.

For one task, a relatively simple Newtonian model may be sufficient. For another, we may need a more sophisticated calculation that accounts for additional perturbations and relativistic effects.

This is not a weakness of the scientific method.

On the contrary, the ability to identify what matters, abstract away from what is less relevant, and formalize particular relationships is a major reason for science’s extraordinary success.

But this raises the question that interests me.

What exactly have we obtained when we construct an exceptionally accurate model of the Earth’s motion?

We have certainly learned something about reality—something objective, testable, and practically significant.

But have we captured reality itself in its entirety?

Clearly not.

We have constructed a conceptual and mathematical representation that allows us to describe, predict, and explain selected features of a real physical process within a particular range of accuracy and applicability.

And the selectivity of that representation does not mean that the causal relationships it identifies are merely imaginary or approximate in the same sense. The model may simplify the situation while nevertheless providing genuine knowledge of how the world works.

The representation refers to reality, but it is not identical to reality.

I think this distinction is fundamental.

When we say that the Earth follows a particular trajectory because of gravitational interactions, this is a genuine scientific explanation. It does not cease to be an explanation simply because we can ask another question: why does the physical world possess these properties in the first place?

Science does more than identify stable correlations. It can reveal real causal relationships and mechanisms. For example, we can explain in detail how a particular virus causes disease, even though there is still no single universally accepted scientific definition of life. Moreover, whether viruses themselves should be considered living entities remains a subject of debate. None of this diminishes the scientific explanation of the mechanisms of viral infection.

At the same time, explaining a mechanism does not necessarily exhaust what can be asked about the nature of the reality in which that mechanism exists.

This is where I think we need to distinguish two different claims.

The first is that science allows us to acquire reliable knowledge of the real world.

The second is that our scientific description of the world constitutes an exhaustive account of everything that exists.

I readily accept the first claim.

But I do not see why the second should follow from it.

Scientific models are constructed within particular conceptual frameworks. They isolate properties, quantities, relationships, and regularities that allow a question to be investigated in a manageable way.

In a certain sense, we must make aspects of reality intellectually tractable before we can construct their mathematical or experimental representation.

We decide what to measure, which parameters are relevant, which idealizations are acceptable, and under what conditions a result can be applied.

Of course, reality is under no obligation to conform to our expectations. That is precisely why models are tested against observation and experiment, refined, and sometimes rejected.

But even an extraordinarily successful model remains a particular way of representing reality.

There is another interesting aspect to this.

We develop mathematical languages, choose symbols, and formulate equations. But we do not create the fact that these equations can sometimes describe, with astonishing accuracy, patterns in a world that existed long before human beings appeared.

Why is such a correspondence possible at all between the abstract constructions we develop and a physical reality that exists independently of us?

That seems to me to be a question of a somewhat different kind.

We can investigate how a mathematical model is confirmed. We can explain why one formalism works better than another. We can refine our understanding of the domains in which particular equations are applicable.

But the question of why the world is intelligible at all, why it exhibits a stable objective order, and why that order admits mathematical representation is not necessarily exhausted by identifying further physical regularities.

Nor do I think we need to set science and philosophy against each other here.

Scientific inquiry involves assumptions and standards concerning explanation, measurement, causation, evidence, and the distinction between successful and unsuccessful models.

Those assumptions and standards can themselves become subjects of investigation and revision.

So philosophy does not necessarily begin where science ends. Sometimes it helps us understand what science has already established and what status our claims about those results should have.

And this brings us, perhaps, to the most important distinction.

It is one thing to say: “We have identified a regularity and understand how a particular phenomenon arises.”

It is quite another to say: “We have therefore established that reality as a whole consists of nothing beyond the entities, properties, and relationships included in our scientific descriptions.”

The first claim may be the result of successful scientific investigation.

The second requires an additional philosophical argument.

And it does not become a scientific conclusion merely because it draws upon an extraordinarily successful scientific picture of the world.

Perhaps this is why I am not entirely comfortable with either extreme: the claim that science explains nothing and merely describes, or the claim that scientific explanation must, in principle, exhaust everything meaningful that can be said about reality.

The first, I think, underestimates the genuine explanatory power of science.

The second risks confusing a method of investigation with a complete ontological account of what exists.

Science does not need to claim an exhaustive explanation of existence in order to remain one of humanity’s greatest intellectual achievements.

And philosophy does not need to deny scientific explanations in order to ask questions extending beyond particular scientific models.

But I would add one further distinction.

The fact that a scientific explanation is not exhaustive does not, by itself, establish the truth of any particular metaphysical explanation—materialist, Aristotelian, theistic, or otherwise.

Each must also justify its own starting assumptions.

So for me, the most interesting question is not really whether science explains anything. Of course it does.

What interests me more is this:

At what point do we move from speaking about what we have established through a scientific model to making claims about what reality itself ultimately is? And do we always notice when we make that move?

It seems to me that this is one of the most interesting boundaries between scientific explanation and the philosophical interpretation of its results.

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Using your analogy, we do explain the top turtles in terms of lower turtles.

Earth’s seasons (which are flat!)[1] are a top turtle explained by a lower turtle (axial tilt) which is explained by even lower turtles (rotational inertia, planetary orbits) which are explained by even lower turtles (conservation of momentum and gravity). That we may get stuck at the bottom turtle and not be able to explain why gravity operates doesn’t mean we can’t explain planetary orbits etc in terms of gravity.

P.S.

Uh??? Modern minds aren’t so programmed. Is your mind modern? Is it programmed that way? If not, how did you avoid the programming?


  1. Couldn’t resist. ↩︎

And unmoved mover or necessary thing does little to explain why the rest mass of an electron is as measured. It certainly doesn’t help us with dark matter. The problems with ultimate or final causes is their ability to project back to the specifics. You can try a top > down explanations or work from bottom > up theories but it seems connecting the top to the bottom is not achievable.

The real problem lies in philosophical materialism. It is a philosophical position like any other, yet it has acquired an entirely unwarranted authority. Most people are now conditioned to equate materialism with science or even to assume that, given enough time, science will inevitably explain everything in terms consistent with a materialist worldview.

The premium Noble John Eccles called it “promissory materialism”.

“We regard promissory materialism to be as superstition without rational foundation. The more we discover between mental phenomena and the more wonderful do both the brain events and the mental phenomena become. Promissory materialism is simply religious belief held by dogmatic materialism.”
John Eccless and Daniel Robinson in The Wonder of Being Human, 1984, p. 36

This has also given rise to the utterly modern notion that scientific knowledge is the only genuine form of knowledge, with not only religion but even philosophy and metaphysics denied any authority or credibility.

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Obviously we can’t make a sweeping generalization, but the so-called “buffered self” is very much a reality in western man (particularly so in Western Europe).

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Could “mind programmed” and “buffered self” just be excuses to avoid dealing with actual reasons for disagreement?

It’s easy to dismiss others’ views on the grounds that they have been programmed/buffered not to accept your ideas. It’s also unconvincing.

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Sometimes it can be. But certainly not always.

You have it backwards, in the sense that there is ample evidence that modern man often has a buffered self and even bigger evidence that scientific knowledge is very often presented as the only true knowledge, just like there is big evidence that even noble disciplines like metaphysics and philosophy are dismissed as useless blabber for people who have too much time on their hands.

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Promissory supernaturalism is problematic as well, if one is interested in coherent and complete explanations. I am fine with the status of “insufficient data for meaningful answer” for now. One can believe or work under the supposition of particular final cause explanation, but one needs to admit that the details are lacking.

For example, people often criticize string theory or multiverse theorizing as too detached from observational testing. And this true but the effort is to ground the hypotheses by discovering a testable formulation. A lot of science results from theorizing from a hypothesis or hypothetical mechanism and then devising a means of testing. But I have to wonder, if folks think that string theory is too hand-wavy, where does that lead the God of philosophy (uncaused cause or a singularity of action), in terms of connecting to how the world we observe operates and details like the rest mass of a particle? Further, is there even a clue whether the God of philosophy would be incompatible with string theory or multiverse?

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Sure, the problem is when we operate under the assumption that all meaningful knowledge has to be scientific . Which is a mindset that has contaminated even many Christians in the west.

Sure but we cannot deny the philosophical reason that brings many to theorize the multiverse in the first place (for example explaining the fine-tuning in a way that fits with materialistic premises).

This is the biggest lie of modern society: the destruction of philosophy when, in reality, we have elevated a particular philosophical system (namely philosophical naturalism) to be the standard of truth.

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As I argued a few days ago, the multiverse would not refute the cosmological argument, but it would nevertheless deal a severe blow to the perceived credibility of theism in general and Christianity in particular. I have emphasized “perceived” because that distinction is crucial.

Evolution, too, has dealt a major blow to Christianity’s perceived credibility, even though it refutes only a naively literalist reading of Genesis. It disproves neither the existence of God nor the existence of Adam and Eve as historical individuals.

The reception of evolution illustrates how much more weight narratives can carry than facts in modern society. This is evident both in the way some philosophical naturalists treat Darwin’s On the Origin of Species as their own “holy book” ( a work they believe has demolished any credibility of theism in general and Christianity in particular) and in the disproportionate (and unwarranted) fear and rejection with which some Christians regard evolution.

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This meta discussion of societal opinions and sociology is interesting but a bit distinct from the discussion of what science actually provides and what a top>down approach that starts with the “ultimate top” or most distal hypothesis achieves. Eccles is correct that materialism like Christianity is a religious belief. But I’d rather consider the specifics of knowledge and how we work through systematic observations of the world than restrict myself to a particular tribe or ism.

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I’ve never seen that.

I’ve seen lots of people complain that their own views are rejected because of that, without providing any examples.

If there is “ample” and “even bigger evidence”, it should be trivial to present some. If you can’t or won’t, the conclusion is obvious.

This Physicist: Life After Death Is Incompatible With Physics | Mind Matters is just one of the many examples I could make.

Neither link includes anything about scientific knowledge being the only true knowledge. (I haven’t watched the video)

Try again.

Claiming that we know that there is no afterlife and that the afterlife is impossible is not (on top of being a falsehood) equivalent to claiming that scientific knowledge is the only true knowledge, and that neither philosophy nor metaphysics have anything meaningful to say about the nature of reality?

Sean Carroll was, for all intents and purposes, claiming that science can offer comprehensive knowledge (to the point of disproving the spiritual reality) which, if true, would obviously make philosophy and metaphysics useless and religion (every kind of religion, and even a-religious spirituality) false.