So many things a Christian just has to believe and do unquestioningly. Not a selling point.
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theism = belief in god(s)
a-theism = without a belief in god(s)
other examples:
atemporal = without time
asymmetric = without symmetry
achromatic = without color
Atheism is just the lack of of belief in gods. It isn’t the belief that gods don’t exist.
What atheists actually say:
As described perfectly by @mitchellmckain above, I am an agnostic atheist. I can’t know if gods exist or not, but I don’t believe in any.
As to me, I was raised in the church and left when I was about 22. I know about Christianity. I certainly wasn’t lazy. I was the kid in Sunday School who the answer to every question, could find a Bible verse faster than any other kid, and so forth. In fact, atheists often do better on Bible quizzes than Christians do.
It’s a simple question. Are you happy in your life? Yes, it is a complicated pattern, but happiness is something everyone can relate to.
I agree that making rules in society can result in non-optimal situations for the individual, but I was thinking more of the big ticket items when it comes to how one views their overall happiness.
I would assume that you chose to follow God and take the path you are currently on, and that this walk brings fulfillment, purpose, and happiness to your life. That’s the type of thing I was describing with “living the life they want to live”. A Christian life is the one you want live and strive towards.
Christianity comes out of the greatest intellectual tradition in history.
Following the link, Atheists Score Best on Religious-Knowledge Quiz
First you should know that this is knowledge in general, not knowledge about ones own particular religion.
On the one hand, it may suggest that people who are most committed to their own faith traditions are simply less interested in learning about other religions, (from the link)
Incorrect. Commitment has nothing to do with it. This is only about whether people looked at other religions. All it really means, is that on average more people stay with the religion in which they were brought up and they do not look as much at other religions. You are likely to find a better average among converts, since they are more likely to look at a variety of religions before choosing one.
In fact, I expect if you really correlated this with commitment you would find the opposite is the case. Not just converts, but those most committed will also feel more free to investigate other religions – more interested in religion in general.
Also I would look into the way in which they conducted the survey because I think there are many atheists who simply are not interested in religion and they are not so likely to know much about religions in general either.
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No one has an answer – the church has been wrestling with that since at least the fifth century and probably earlier.
That’s not a great assumption – there have been many Christians, including prominent ones, for whom being a Christian didn’t bring fulfillment or happiness, it brought truth. Consider Job!
Or before they became Christians they looked at a lot, but subsequently forgot most of it (pretty much what I do when looking for a new computer: check out a lot of them, learn the differences, then pick one – after which all that info is no longer of use).
You know what responses like this are enough to make me swear (and i do swear a lot btw)…unless i reference directly, naysayers like to nitpick my responses with rubbish twisting of my intended meanings.
So for reference and to silence stupidity…below is the google search response to agnostic (i paraphrased but this is what i meant)
omg here we go again…
The truth is, an atheist can claim a lack of belief in God OR that there is no God.
THE FACT REMAINS…AN ATHEIST CANNOT MAKE SUCH A CLAIM WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE OF THE NOTION OF GOD AND THEREFORE THEY ARE JUDGED ON THAT KNOWLEDGE. THAT WAS MY POINT!!!
How is this different from proving leprechauns exist because aleprechaunists couldn’t chose to not believe in leprechauns unless they knew of leprechauns?
I am a believer; I’m just not following the logic here.
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What all atheists share is a lack of belief in gods. Yes, some also go on to say that no gods exist, but that is not a shared position of all atheists.
Just as you will be judged based on your knowledge that Koran exists, or the notion of the Roman, Norse, and Hindu gods.
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That might be a topic where it is difficult to find common ground. I would hope that they do find something that makes them happy if it isn’t Christianity, but I can understand why Christians would not necessarily share that outlook.
Indeed. That’s a rabbit hole for a different day. I do find it interesting that Job may be one of the oldest books in the Bible.
That probably isn’t true despite so many people repeating the claim.
And surely the answer to that question ties directly into how we answer this topic under discussion here does it not?
Are you “happy” makes my eyes roll honestly. Because I don’t find it simple at all. In what sense? My wife has cancer right now and has been in a lot of pain the last 6 months, children are dying of starvation, women are being raped, there are wars happening and millions if not billions of people are suffering at this moment. Some are dying of simple, preventable diseases or due to a fixable lack of clean drinking water. My personal “happiness” is not a realistic metric for anything. Watching a silly movie makes me “happy” but is that just a waste of time or God’s will? A third of a bottle of bourbon will make me insanely “happy” but again…is this true “happiness”? Can I truly be “happy” in this moment knowing there is injustice in the world? I can fight, I can give up, I can care, I can even not care. To be happy or not happy isn’t even a realistic consideration for me. For me Christian life is about growth. Continual growth. Being content is about being stationary. So I can be happy about certain things (maybe a physics lesson I gave worked really well) but the generic “are you happy” is just an artificial platitude to me at this point. Life has all sorts of ups and downs. Sad moments and happy moments. Behind that is something deeper.
I am grateful and thankful for all that. If my wife dies I’ll be sad but grateful for the time we had. If she lives (which it looks like we are winning) I will be “happy” but like all humans, down the road I will take things I shouldn’t for granted. My Christian life is not a magical McDonald’s playground “happy” one. I fight doubts, I fight sin, I constantly struggle with the things I know I ought to do vs the things I actually do. I struggle with the theodicy problem. What I do have is deep spiritual joy and forgiveness. And an understanding and peace that comes from knowing that in the end God is in control and things will work according to his sovereign will. God gives me comfort and strength amidst my failures and existential angst.
But at the end of the day it’s not about my happiness in Christianity. It is about God’s will. Jesus in the garden was in agony, falling prostrate multiple times asking that the cup be taken. I am guessing in some sense He would have been happy not to be whipped, tortured, spit upon and crucified. But He had a deeper purpose than “feeling good” driving Him. We all generally desire happiness and to feel good but that is not the point of life or major purpose from a Christian perspective. We do try to increase the quality of life for others and ourselves but that is out of service to God. Jesus consigned to God’s will and greater thinking. So must we. Shallow, “worldly thinking” is that which the Bible tells us to reject. The truth is our desires will lead us astray often enough. The path to true “happiness” is following the will of God. To live is Christ, to die is gain. It’s about storing your treasures in heaven and trusting God.
There is a lot of unredressed evil and injustice in the world. I am blessed beyond measure. I have plumbing, electricity, a pretty good salary, comfortable existence, a wife who I love and so on. In terms of material things I am very well to do. Not rich but I realize that just having lights and water makes me the 1% of world history- – or the 0.000001%. But these are all material things. Rich people can be very unhappy. poor people can be very happy at times. What is true happiness?
Whether or not I choose to follow God is Biblically up in the air but I do believe in free will in a sense. You are correct that God brings fulfillment and purpose to my life. Happiness is not a term I am sold on. Sometimes I am the tax collector who won’t even raise his eyes to heaven…other times unimportant worldly things make me momentarily happy. For me, God is about deep spiritual joy and trust.
happy: feeling or showing pleasure or contentment
Cows eating grass are content. Are they truly “happy”? Are they filled with the joy of God? Maybe I don’t like the term “happy.” But at the end of the day to be happy as the world understands it is not Christian theology. To find our life we have to lose it.
“Consider it all joy , my brothers and sisters, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.” Deep joy knowing God is in control, but but am I happy when encountering these things? I am not that mature in my spiritual work.
Joy and all things good come from God. Does that mean atheists are joyless? Of course not. Nature is contingent on God who upholds it everywhere at every instant. He is nearer to us than we are ourselves. We can all glimpse the divine and true joy. A mother’s love for her child is probably the closest thing or analogy we have to God’s love. So even atheists can experience images of the divine and the joy that brings whether they know it by name or not. Because we all are a part of God’s creation. But in the end, the purpose of life is not to be “content” or “happy”. I reject your question as I do not find it meaningful or realistic.
Vinnie
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ONLY if they judge other people in the same way.
Matthew 7:2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.
That sounds to me like a house built upon sand – a very foolish arrogance.
I prefer faith and grace, so I do not imagine that I can judge anyone by dogma or anything like that.
Romans 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith says, Do not say in your heart, “Who will ascend into heaven?” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 or “Who will descend into the abyss?” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
This is an interesting part of the discussion and I have a proposed belief on this that is an SDA view of it…
our church believes that the reason why God has largely withdrawn from the interractions of Old Testament times is because He has been fully revealed in both Testaments of the Bible.
Also, in my meanderings around Christianity as Ive grown older i have come across those who believe that God would reveal Himself personally if we were willing to listen, however, society has largely parted from a general need to actively seek interaction of that nature with God.
house built upon the sand has nothing to do with what you are citing there Mitchel…it is to do with doctrine and relationship with God. Building ones house upon the sand is to build it upon human guesses as to what Gods revelation is instead of following what is revealed in the bible. Contrary to many opinions, the bible is Gods revelation of Himself and His desires for His creation. It does not need external interpretation and that is the entire problem here in my opinion.
BTW “The Rock” in the story of the wise and foolish man, is Christ. One of the important theologies of this is the gospel. Christ, took upon himself the form of humanity, to come and make atonement for the wages of sin is death by physcially dying on the cross, being raised again, and asending to heaven so that he may come again and redeem those of His creation who believe on Him!
So you alter the words of the Bible to justify your disregard of the words of Jesus about judging others – which is precisely the opposite of what the Bible actually says. The text in Matthew 7 is as follows
Matthew 7:24 “Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; 25 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; 27 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it.”
There is NOTHING about doctrine in the text whatsoever. It is quite specifically about hearing the words of Jesus and not acting upon them. Jesus tells us of the consequences of judging others and how it means you will be judged in a like manner. To heed Jesus, is to see how foolish it is to judge people by doctrine – ignoring this and pronouncing judgments on other people is an example of ignoring His warning and thus Jesus’ metaphor of a house built on sand very much applies.
You go ahead and bet your salvation on your choice of doctrine. But I say no thank you! All the better reason to suspect your other choices, like those of doctrine. And then there is the refusal to listen to all that God tells us in the earth, sky, and our own biology. All of it is such a very poor bet, and gambling your salvation in this way is the most foolish one of all.
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