Does Cell-Building Require Intelligence?


#101

What evolution tends to favor is community and cooperation between closely related or clonal organisms and competition between more distantly related cells. An ant colony works great and all the ants are closely related to one another, but different ant colonies of the same species will duke it out over territory.


(Randy) #102

Thank you. If you have time, would you post some of your organization’s background, or a website folks can read to get an understanding of the point of view you are coming from? Thanks.


(Mitchell W McKain) #103

Cooperation between more closely related organisms is simply easier. But examples of cooperation between unrelated organisms are legion. The advantages of cooperation remain regardless. The most I will grant you is that competition is also has some advantages and thus plays a role in many improvements both in evolution and in human civilization.


(Thomas W. Rogers) #104

Thanks for your interest Randy.
Many of our proposals are outlined in this thread over the last week.
Our websites are receiving some updating this week.
It was very interesting to read the Biologos podcast announcement this morning and to see the clarifying definitions for various terms.
We agree that God is the Creator of all living things, but we believe that He is much more involved with the cell construction decisions, choices and physical works with the right numbers of the right atoms in building every cell part.
A key evidence was provided by the three 2016 Nobel Prize Winners in Chemistry who proved, probably unintentionally, that mankind has nowhere near enough intelligence to build the molecular machines essential for our cells.
This signifies that the theoretical processes of evolution, having no intelligence to use, are incapable of creating living cells and entities.
That is the key but we outline many more aspects of essential intelligent works for life in “Darwin’s Replacement”.


#105

Examples of predation are also legion. Examples of mate competition are legion. Examples of territorial disputes within the same species are legion. There are a lot of possible strategies, and we can find species using all of them.


#106

Could you explain why nature is incapable of producing something if humans are incapable of producing it? 200 years ago, humans couldn’t produce a nuclear fusion reaction. According to your logic, this means that 200 years ago God had to be there to crush atoms together in the core of the Sun. However, humans are now capable of producing fusion reactions, so does this mean that God has stopped crushing the cores of stars as of the 20th century?


#107

Biologos, in following the evidence, is just helping to minimize God’s role until He all but disappears.


#108

I would argue that those who require God to act against nature instead of through nature are the ones who are unwittingly making God disappear.


#109

Either way, perhaps He just isn’t there at all?


#110

Even as an atheist, I stay away from citing lack of evidence as evidence of absence.


#111

Tell that to the Pixies that may or may not be in my garden…


#112

Tell that to the billions of galaxies that had no evidence for their existence until the early 1900’s.


#113

And then tell it to the teapot that is floating amongst them…


(Randy) #114

Thanks. I found some of your websites. I hope that you don’t mind that I post them. Is the questionnaire below only for anti-evolutionists? (and I thoroughly agree with your statement above that there is nothing that says that those who believe in abiogenesis, evolution, or interventionalism can’t praise God either).



https://www.realityrandd.com/

Is this work in reference to the same as Dr Nathaniel Jeanson’s “Replacing Darwin” but in a different, perhaps engineering vein?

I’m not here to disprove anyone; it’s ok to have differing points of views, but I think you would not mind, since you are asking questions about Biologos, that they ask questions about yours.

I do believe that we both have good intent, and that’s what God looks at. Thanks.


(Mitchell W McKain) #115

Yes and these predators are facing the danger of extinction. Why? It is because the one strategy which trumps them all is cooperation and the technology which this makes possible. If they survive, it will be because we have learned to extend this attitude of cooperation to helping them (along with many other species) to survive seeing them as something advantageous to us rather than just a threat.


(Mitchell W McKain) #116

Oh gosh! Did somebody launch a teapot into space TOO!

:grin:


(Thomas W. Rogers) #117

I agree and believe it is important for scientists to discuss evidence and follow where it leads us, always seeking truth in an open-minded unbiased manner and seeking the best explanation at all times.
Reading the introductory words for Stump’s podcast this morning I was pleased to read that Biologos (at the executives) claim to believe in the Creator and that He creates all things., but when it comes to general discussion there seems to be general reluctance to give God much credit for His awesome creative works with the building-block atoms.
This could be because of the last three generations of teaching that evolution is the cause of life and that God must be moved as far away from public school and college students as possible.
As Richard Lewontin (?spelling) said, “We dare not let a divine foot in the door.”
As for Jeanson’s book, I have only had time to scan it briefly but he did not seem focused on the super-intelligent selection, counting, and assembling of the right numbers of the right atoms to construct cell parts, as we are.


(system) #118

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