Does Cell-Building Require Intelligence?

[GodsBiology (Thomas W. Rogers)]

@Randy

What do you define as intelligence? Irreducible complexity?

Hi Randy:
We would define intelligence, perhaps in its simplest form, as the ability to count. Then to learn more sophisticated abilities of many kinds.

[GodsBiology (Thomas W. Rogers)]

@Richard_Wright1

Hello Thomas.

@GodsBiology

Actually all we are rejecting is the theory that all the extremely brilliant and complex physical work with atoms to build cell-parts, cells, and entities can be performed using no intelligence.

I’m wondering if by, “intelligence” you mean that a universe that evolved such complex entities and processes necessitates an intelligent creator, or that it means that something, somewhere down the line of life on earth, must have been instantiated?

Hi Richard:
We are focusing on the physical work of finding, sorting, selecting, counting, and precisely assembling all the right numbers of the right elemental atoms to build every molecular machine for our cells, our fully constructed and hooked up cells, and their sequenced assembly into us, even as we discuss this.
E.g.: For a 150 lb. male, about 6400 Quadrillion right atoms per second are being handled as above, just to build his replacement red blood cells. You can modify the number in ratio to your own weight.
Do you believe there may be some intelligence and care involved?

[beaglelady]

@GodsBiology

Do you show gratitude for the vegetables, fruit, and meat that has been made for you your whole life, Beaglelady?
Do you think discipline is good for a child?

Wow. I show that your arguments make no sense, and you turn everything into an accusation against me–hinting that I’m not grateful! Tell me: are you grateful to Luther Burbank for developing the Burbank Russet potato, used in untold millions of McDonald’s fries?

[Chris_Falter]

@GodsBiology

But is there any intelligence required for these examples?

Yes. It requires intelligence to create a machine such as that.

No, it does not require intelligence for the machine to operate, in my opinion. The rotation of the gears in Babbage’s “analytical engine” required no more intelligence than the rotation of the water in your toilet after you press the handle down.

Regards,
Chris

[Sy_Garte]

@GodsBiology

For a 150 lb. male, about 6400 Quadrillion right atoms per second are being handled as above, just to build his replacement red blood cells. You can modify the number in ratio to your own weight.
Do you believe there may be some intelligence and care involved?

Your continuous use of the word “atom” is very odd. You say you have been working on these ideas for many years. Have you ever studied actual biology? Biologists generally talk about molecules, whose atomic composition is well known. It’s very hard to understand what you are talking about, since the concentration of elemental atoms (carbon, oxygen, etc) in any living environment is vanishingly low. Perhaps I am misunderstand your ideas.

[GodsBiology (Thomas W. Rogers)]

@beaglelady

@GodsBiology

Do you show gratitude for the vegetables, fruit, and meat that has been made for you your whole life, Beaglelady?
Do you think discipline is good for a child?

Wow. I show that your arguments make no sense, and you turn everything into an accusation against me–hinting that I’m not grateful! Tell me: are you grateful to Luther Burbank for developing the Burbank Russet potato, used in untold millions of McDonald’s fries?

I am not accusing you of anything, Beaglelady. I was just asking a question not even hinting that you may not be grateful. I am very grateful that God makes Burbank’s Russets as well as other potatoes and foods for all of us.

[GodsBiology (Thomas W. Rogers)]

@Chris_Falter

@GodsBiology

But is there any intelligence required for these examples?

Yes. It requires intelligence to create a machine such as that.

No, it does not require intelligence for the machine to operate, in my opinion. The rotation of the gears in Babbage’s “analytical engine” required no more intelligence than the rotation of the water in your toilet after you press the handle down.

Regards,
Chris

How about deciding to repair or replace parts that wear out and doing the work? Does that require any intelligent decision-making or intelligent work?
It seems I am more prepared than many in these discussions, to give our Creator credit for the super-intelligent physical work with atoms essential for constructing,sustaining, maintaining, and repairing our cells.

[Randy]

@GodsBiology

It seems I am more prepared than many in these discussions, to give our Creator credit for the super-intelligent physical work with atoms essential for constructing,sustaining, maintaining, and repairing our cells.

Mr Rogers, Brother,

We all agree that we can praise God for his work, like the Psalmist. Psalms 100 | NIV Bible | YouVersion

Thank you for your thoughts.

[GodsBiology (Thomas W. Rogers)]

@Sy_Garte

@GodsBiology

For a 150 lb. male, about 6400 Quadrillion right atoms per second are being handled as above, just to build his replacement red blood cells. You can modify the number in ratio to your own weight.
Do you believe there may be some intelligence and care involved?

Your continuous use of the word “atom” is very odd. You say you have been working on these ideas for many years. Have you ever studied actual biology? Biologists generally talk about molecules, whose atomic composition is well known. It’s very hard to understand what you are talking about, since the concentration of elemental atoms (carbon, oxygen, etc) in any living environment is vanishingly low. Perhaps I am misunderstand your ideas.

Hello Sy:
You are right in your observation that individual atoms to make up all the molecules is seldom discussed in biology. It may be because the essential finding, sorting, selecting, counting, and precise assembly of the right numbers of the the right elemental atoms to make molecules and functioning molecular machines for our cells, requires super-intelligent decisions, choices, and physical works. This, of course, rules out evolution as the cause of life, as evolution claims to need no intelligence.

[GodsBiology (Thomas W. Rogers)]

@Randy

@GodsBiology

It seems I am more prepared than many in these discussions, to give our Creator credit for the super-intelligent physical work with atoms essential for constructing,sustaining, maintaining, and repairing our cells.

Mr Rogers, Brother,

We all agree that we can praise God for his work, like the Psalmist. Psalms 100 | NIV Bible | YouVersion

Thank you for your thoughts.

Thank you, Randy. You give credit where credit is due.
My concern is that many of the “all” involved in this important discussion, do not want to credit our Creator for His wonderful and careful works for us.

[Randy]

@GodsBiology

Thank you, Randy. You give credit where credit is due.
My concern is that many of the “all” involved in this important discussion, do not want to credit our Creator for His wonderful and careful works for us.

Mr Rogers,

I’m not sure I understand. I think that we can still glorify God whether life came by abiogenesis from His amazing command, or by evolution, or all at once.

I’m far below most folks here in terms of biology-- @Sy_Garte for example–as I’m only a family doc. I’m learning a lot from each of these folks. “We are His people, the sheep of His pasture”

God bless.

Randy

[beaglelady]

@GodsBiology

I am not accusing you of anything, Beaglelady. I was just asking a question not even hinting that you may not be grateful.

Oh come one, Thomas. We’ve been here before. Why were you asking me if I was grateful for food? And about whether discipline was good for a child?

[GodsBiology (Thomas W. Rogers)]

@beaglelady

@GodsBiology

I am not accusing you of anything, Beaglelady. I was just asking a question not even hinting that you may not be grateful.

Oh come one, Thomas. We’ve been here before. Why were you asking me if I was grateful for food? And about whether discipline was good for a child?

Apparently, I am hogging the conversation here. I just hope you find the answers you are seeking.
Blessings,
Tom

[beaglelady]

@GodsBiology

Apparently, I am hogging the conversation here.

Says who? 

[GodsBiology (Thomas W. Rogers)]

@beaglelady

@GodsBiology

Apparently, I am hogging the conversation here.

Says who? 

Whoever is supervising this string sent me a note saying I wasn’t giving others enough time to respond.
It has happened before, so I guess I am a bad boy.

[Christy (Christy Hemphill)]

Actually those messages are from the mindless computer overlords, and you are free to use your judgment and ignore them if it seems more rational.

[beaglelady]

@GodsBiology

Whoever is supervising this string sent me a note saying I wasn’t giving others enough time to respond.
It has happened before, so I guess I am a bad boy.

That message was automatically generated by the discussion forum software. It didn’t come from a human, so don’t take it personally.

[Randy]

yes, don’t take that personally! that has happened before. Keep it up.

[GodsBiology (Thomas W. Rogers)]

@Christy

Actually those messages are from the mindless computer overlords, and you are free to use your judgment and ignore them if it seems more rational.

Thank you, Christy.
Cheers,
Tom

[GodsBiology (Thomas W. Rogers)]

@beaglelady

@GodsBiology

Whoever is supervising this string sent me a note saying I wasn’t giving others enough time to respond.
It has happened before, so I guess I am a bad boy.

That message was automatically generated by the discussion forum software. It didn’t come from a human, so don’t take it personally.

Thanks Beaglelady. I’m glad we can continue our chat.
I wanted to say that I sense your desire to learn a bit more about the Creator and how he relates to us. Some of it is hard to understand because His ways are higher than ours.
Certainly this world is not Heaven, in fact the world is getting to be a crazier place every year.
We are all given freedom to choose how we live, and some choices are not very bright.
I do not have all the answers but I do have some if you care to ask. i will give it my best shot.
Cheers,
Tom