I was very confused in August, just beginning to question my fundementist beliefs.
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Apologies if I am mistaken, Tomcat, but you seem to confirm the reasons why I have misgivings about accepting ALL of the O.T. as special revelation.
Unless you turn a blind eye to all scientific evidence, you must realize that the genomic heritage of humankind could NOT have funneled through the three male sons of Noah (if indeed they ever existed), and it is futile to look for evidence that God “killed off” the rest of humanity. Besides flying in the face of science, that would foster a belief in a vengeful, evil god instead of a belief in a loving Spiritual Father. Spreading the former belief, IMHO, would make it almost impossible to be a successful Christian missionary.
In a previous post, I cited the story of Lot (and his wife and daughters) in
Genesis as a doubtful instance of divine (special) revelation. There exists a deep seated rivalry amongst Abraham’s offspring that probably extends back to their journey from Ur. Even while taking into account Christy’s warning against “pure speculation”, there is a distinct possibility that an Israelite scribe, who had some real or imagined grudge against the Moabites, decided the most effective revenge would to write into history a scurrilous account of that tribe’s incestuous beginnings. A great deal of exegetical effort has been made to justify the inclusion in Jesus’ ancestry (and David’s) of Lot’s incestuous daughters (and Tamar, who acted as a prostitute for Judah). None of this exegesis is convincing to me. I think it more likely to believe it reflects a desire of an Israeli scribe for revenge.
In no way am I proposing this scenario as FACT, but it is more logical than any other of which I am aware to explain the deep seated, illogical enmity between today’s Arabs and Jews–that together with the (by today’s standards) unconscionable banishment of Abraham’s son, Ishmael, and his mother, to the Sinai desert.
My view of the O.T. merely acknowledges the immense power of religious belief, which we all hope will be used for the advancement of humankind. We cannot and should not ignore the historical evidence that the religious practice of offering blood sacrifices to appease the gods is a grisly way that religion can be (and actually was) used to kill thousands of innocent human beings.
Al Leo
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I think Enns says something like that…at least about why Noah would curse Ham’s son Kenaan (Canaan) for Ham’s sin.
Apologies if I am mistaken, Tomcat, but you seem to confirm the reasons why I have misgivings about accepting ALL of the O.T. as special revelation.
accepting
Yes, that is the direction my thoughts are going
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I think I am becoming a “Christian Humanist”, I feel the growing need to resign from being an elder in a North American Baptist church. Can you say, “identity crisis!”
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Sorry it’s been a painful process. Hopefully you can come through it all with your identity in Christ, even if you have to let go of some extraneous stuff. What areas of doctrine are you having trouble with in your church?
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I agree with @Christy and empathize. It is honorable of you to consider where to be open and not. I am not an elder, but do attend a YEC, literalist Baptist church. Biologos has been a safe place for me to think and learn about things like this before talking about them; hopefully without too much trauma to others. You have my prayers for wisdom.
One mandate I think the folks at Biologos follow very well is to claim unity as much as possible. For example, if we disagree, that’s OK; it’s great to worship together and affirm our mutual faith in Christ.
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What areas of doctrine are you having trouble with in your church?
Inerrancy is a big one. At the moment I am personal dealing with the evolution of God and prophesy in the Bible. Old Testiment prophesy of a spiritual utopia upon they’re return from Babylon were unfulfilled, so the Messiah was to fulfilled them. When Jesus felled to bring in the utopia, then we was to return in they’er life time to bring in the kingdom. When Jesus did not return, then Revelation was written promising a future utopian kingdom. I used to only read the Bible one chapter at a time, then I would meditate and prayer about what God was trying to tell me. Then I looked at science and started questioning what I had been taught in Sunday School. Then I downloaded the NLT Bible app and started listening to whole books at a sitting. Suddenly I started hearing what the human author was saying. Augggggg! Oh no! That’s not was I taught! The Bible was suddenly a very human book, written by people who had flaws just like me. I am afraid this Calvinist is losing his Election. Thank you for your kind response to my past post. Tom.
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Thank you,Randy.
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Did I used to use the Bible like a cristle ball or a magic mirror?
I am currently re-reading Scott McKnight’s Blue Parakeet with my kids. The whole book is about how we read the Bible. The driving question is “How do we know how to apply God’s word in their days and their ways to our days and our ways?” It focuses on the Bible as God’s story, and helps identify some of the unhelpful (and often inconsistent) ways Evangelicals are taught to approach the Bible.
I know for me personally, some of these approaches have gotten in the way of my hearing the heart of the message. I would get bogged down by trying to see how it all fit into a theological system, or I would skip the whole story and just focus on the commands or the promises or the decontextualized “truth nuggets.”
The encouraging thing for me about coming to terms with the messiness and humanity of Scripture is that it shows that God can surely work through our messes and fragility and brokenness today too. The fact that humans have always had problems has never kept God from engaging and entrusting us with his mission.
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I agree. I think that my culture shock of finding that it had those characteristics initially had made me question more–maybe because I put it on such a pedestal that if it was written, it was literally true in the way that was easiest to understand.
Will look up “Blue Parakeet.” Thanks Tom.
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You might be losing your “old approach” - but look at what you’re gaining! You’re getting into the skin of the authors and the original audience - the authors and original audience that were convinced that Jesus was the Messiah. They reshaped their lives radically around that conviction… and that’s far more exciting than using the bible a verse at a time to prop up a misreading of it. IMO. 
I do hear what you’re saying, though. It’s hard to look at the bible in a new way when your church culture has made a certain way of (mis?)reading it a central plank.
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I do not think that the people mentioned in the Bible were any less human, or even more spiritual than we are today. I understand how some today want to still carry around the spirit of prophecy. But is that a form of control, or an actual means of furthering the Gospel. We are flawed and we need to be ready to give an account if we are brought to task. We cannot live a double standard. Humanist are compassionate people, but they deny the power of God. Those who accept God are no better nor worse. They just give God the credit.
What people recorded in the past did not happen because they were any more special, but because they did put to words how God was working. I do not think that it does God justice to protect God by anthropomorphasizing God, or blaming the flaws and contradictions in Scripture to human understanding, and human justice. Is it wise to judge God? I think that judging God is an excuse to say we are better than God. That was the downfall of Satan, or whatever name given to the being that seems to be the closest ally of God until it was not.
@Tomcat, that sounds good; I think you meant to send that to @Christy, who suggested it. I also plan on listening to that book–I had bought it on Christy’s advice a few months ago, but have not been able to read books because of work. I’m going to listen to it on Audible, though; maybe we can compare notes. I want to say, thought, that the Bible continues to be a great source of strength to me; the NT in particular. I find, yet again, that I really need to read it daily, or twice daily, to keep my focus on the right thing.
Thanks.
FWIW, the Bible is a human book, written by people with flaws, but inspired by the Holy Spirit nevertheless. Inspired by the Spirit, but definitely not dictated; that’s an important distinction. If you require a dictated holy book, you should check out the Qur’an of Islam or the Book of Mormon.
I’m sticking with the Bible.
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Thank you. That is very helpful insight.
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Thank you Christy, I am now finding all the YouTube videos by Scott McKight that I can. Scott is a great speaker. Tom.
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Thank you for replying. I am digesting what you said. Tom