Discovering my Family are Conspiracy Theorists

Faith & Science Conversation
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That is a valid reason for not getting vaccinated. Protection from prior infection isn’t as good as infection+vaccination and may not be as good as vaccination alone (studies have differed), but it’s normally how you decide if you need vaccination for other illnesses.

That’s a valid reason provided you will have no contact whatever with other human beings for the foreseeable future. Otherwise, no.

True – it could well be about the operational difficulty of determining immune status for hundreds of millions of people. Does the military test for antibodies before vaccinating new recruits? In any case, I don’t see is how this has any bearing on whether you should be vaccinated or not.

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I don’t agree. I think we need to listen, and recognize the lies, hate, and distortions from both sides. While your remedy of listening to medical professionals we trust would be generally sound, you have ignored the sociological trust problem I’m highlighting. People are not sure who can be trusted. Until we get a significant number of people talking about the crap coming out of both propaganda streams, we’re not going to resolve this. It’s a feather in the wind.

Too absolute, Steve. This is a human problem, not a science problem. Let me take your comment as a case study. “the operational difficulty of determining immune status” appears to mean you don’t trust people to tell you the truth about if they have had covid. So it’s OK for you to not trust people to tell the truth, but it’s not OK for people you disagree with to not trust that people are telling them the truth.

Your return to trying to argue “just the science” with a heavy hand tells me what media you are probably watching, probably along with everyone who has “liked” your post.

My point - this is important - is that the media is the real problem. We are not going to resolve the OP’s concerns by debating the science. Even if we are right, the most dangerous disease - two competing propaganda streams - is still festering. Let’s get some sunlight on this!

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Can you clarify some mainstream media errors? BBC for example? Thanks. Also, which deviation do they make from CDC and NIH, both of which are quite clear?

It’s easy to pillory the media, and I do that erroneously.

However, we can always go back to the reliable sources. The science is very clear in CDC and NIH, and WHO, I think; the research is reliable in Cochrane and MMWR. All of these are easily accessible to the public.
Thanks.

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Are you serious! OMG! Dude, I’m sorry, but if you don’t know, you’re only watching one side, and you are a victim. Where do I begin?? Russian collusion, Nick Sandman, “peaceful protests”, silence is violence but violence is speech, Hunter Biden’s laptop is Russian disinformation. What a load of effluent! All totally, totally manufactured lies, repeated over and over. But now we should trust them cuz, well, they’re talking “science”! Ooooo. For these other stories, it was “experts.”

Have you tried talking Science with the public? Are you suggesting my wife’s hairdresser should go to the CDC site and decide for herself if the science is sound? Most don’t understand it well enough to know if it is trustworthy. Since the media has utterly disqualified themselves, the word “science” is dismissed as more propaganda.

Look, I know what’s correct and incorrect in the media reporting about covid and vaccines. That’s not the problem here! The problem is that most media can no longer be trusted. Inducing fear and loathing and panic about the unvaxxed is no better than singing the praises of Ivermectin.

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That’s exactly the problem.

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What is your solution to the fact that one side in particular is getting a lot of their info from social media sites run by coordinated Russian disinformation campaigns?

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Not to mention the misinformation proffered by Fox News.

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You make great points, and I respect your post. I remember at one point, a year or so ago, you and I agreed enthusiastically that no matter the disagreements, we would, as Christians, take Communion and worship together. Thank you.

Yes, I’m a family doctor. I am always learning about how to communicate. I am sure that I can improve that a ton.

However, I do strongly recommend CDC.gov. It is a great website for the public, geared to lay people for food poisoning, mental health, travel in missions, and has awesome graphics and navigability for Covid.

Sadly, some immediately dismiss CDC because of slanders they have read.

Great question–No, we shouldn’t expect people to prove whether CDC is correct or not. Despite having formal virology training and doing my graduate paper/presentation on HIV, I don’t have the knowledge to come anywhere near what those guys have to back up their recommendations. In talking with my colleagues, we agree that it’s accurate to admit we don’t understand all this. At a certain point, we have to trust the people that have trained more than we have. They have degrees far more than anyone else in the field with diverging opinions.

I agree enthusiastically with you that we have to take Moses’ warning seriously. In Numbers 20, God punished him for rebuking the people and elevating himself to God’s side, saying, “Do we have to show you how we bring water from the rock?” For that, he was not allowed to go to the Promised Land. That’s a dire warning.

It seems to me that the OP was very appropriate, though.

I think that part of what originator (and the rest) are talking about here is the sadness they feel with regard to those who respond with anger and fear, with conspiracy theories. That is very, very common. Surveys of Americans show that 20% feel there is at least some truth that powerful people spread the virus intentionally, for example. 5% believe that it is definitely true. That doesn’t include the vaccine theories.

I am mourning my own response from family members who consider that I am unwittingly supporting a vast conspiracy to dominate the world. It doesn’t fit with their ordinary character. They are well educated, and generally very kind and supportive.

I agree that many intelligent people reject the science. A physician friend of mine does, for example. He has mistaken reasons, but that does not mean he is unintelligent. Linus Pauling rejected good feedback on Vitamin C, yet he was brilliant.

Any of us who come from a YEC background (like I do) remember how hard it is to grapple with science, and how confusing it is. I was not unintelligent as a YEC. In fact, I had to do more gyrations mentally to adjust to science, and retain my beliefs.

I am sure that I do retain a lot of errors…And even more, I have a lot to learn from others, including Covid deniers, and those who get their information from the wrong source. My family members invest themselves in my precious children and have them over for sleep overs. We talk and pray together. Things have gotten better.

One of the reasons I mourn the refusal to vaccinate is that I know, personally, as a physician, quite a few folks (in the double digits) who have died or are currently very ill because they have not vaccinated.

At times, I have been ashamed and guilty about my response. In fact, this past year has been a big disappointment to me, in how I have not responded always with kindness and understanding. I am still working on that.

Thank you for encouraging gracious dialogue. Please continue to teach me.

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Here’s the latest in a series of in-house updates from my workplace on the pandemic, vaccine boosting, kids, and more.

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Hi Randy,

I just wanted to say it was actually really helpful to hear someone going through a similar thing with their parents. Even to hear you say, “temporary relationship breakdown” was comforting, a good way to look at it. Temporary. I don’t think I’m going to change my parent’s minds, unfortunately. So I’m thinking of focusing on other things going forward - things we have in common. Try to rebuild the relationship again.

It’s a tough time. I’m sorry to hear you’ve known so many who passed away. That’s so tragic.

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@DaughterOfEve
Sorry to hear about the angst you are going through with your family.

I do know how difficult it is to break through the wall when a person has disappeared down ‘the rabbit hole’ of some of the present theories at large. It is far more difficult with those that are nearest and dearest. I find that one of the best ways forward is to seek common ground.

Not all who believe in modern conspiracy theories are correct neither are those that believe that there are no such things as conspiracies. The church and world at large is comprised of both camps and they tend to be polarized, but this should not be a reason for division within families.

Problems stem from the fact that alternative and social media is chock full of disinformation and the mainstream has its problems too in this respect. Neither can be fully trusted to give unsullied factual information and a purely accurate picture of the world we inhabit…

It is as well to acquaint oneself with the work of Edward Bernays and understand how media manipulation works. He is generally regarded as the father of modern advertising and public relations i.e. propaganda. Attempts of media outlets and governments to manipulate public behaviour and public opinion in the past have been intentional and are well documented in the BBC documentary below. Whether this can be regarded as involving conspiracy is up to the individual. One thing for certain is that this particular aspect of psychological manipulation is not a theory, only in the sense that it is based on Freudian theories of human psychological make up and is purposely aimed at the irrational part of the human psyche.

Once armed with the knowledge of how manipulation works one can be on one’s guard and perhaps be in a better position to help others.

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It appears to me that you have been taken in by the conspiracy theorists, who are dealing in fear. Christians believe in faith. Science is not perfect, but science for the most part tries to find the truth. The main stream media is not perfect, but the mainstream media does seek the truth. Politicians who are not beholden to known liars and grifters are not perfect, but try to serve their constituents.

We are called to put our ultimate trust in God, but that means that we must also trust God’s people who are acting in good faith, which is most of us. To condemn the media carte blanche goes against God, as does to excuse that aspect of the media which profits from fear and distrust.

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January 6 should be pretty good evidence of certain folks’ susceptibility to believing lies and conspiracy theories. Christian nationalism is not Christian.

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Thanks. I agree that my relatives (they’re actually not my parents, but very close) mean well, and are in every other way wonderful influence for my kids. I’m sad at how the outside world has influenced us. Keeping on other subjects has helped a ton. I can learn from them in many ways. Morally, they may be my superiors. It’s wonderful to remember that :slight_smile:

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I must apologize Randy, I thought I was sending a private message to you, but obviously I am more technologically illiterate than I thought! I just deleted the quote part of my message.

Thanks again for this encouragement.

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Thank you! I’ll take a look at this.

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That has happened to me also, so don’t feel alone. I sometimes double check to see where something is posted, as it is sometimes hard to tell when mixing private messages with posts.
That said, I brought this subject up at a Bible study this morning, and one of participants commented that we are always going to have conflict and divisions, but we can still respond with love, accepting that we may not resolve those issues. That seems especially true in families.

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That’s encouraging, thanks for sharing! It’s been really helpful to get some perspective from this community.

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This article speaks loud and clear regarding conspiracy theories.
Hope it ministers to those who are involved in conspiracy theories

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I haven’t finished carefully reading all of Kelli’s link above, but the following already in the first section is a powerful and (I think) needed thought.

For Christians, Conspiracy Theory can be rejected simply by this. If adulterous lust is forbidden by Christ (it is) then should Christians indulge in materials or situations that obviously stoke lust? Can we not discern when fear is being stoked? As with lust, such dalliance can be thrilling at first; but to continue in it will ruin your life.

Conspiracy Theory is a perspective and philosophy which encourages what is specifically forbidden by Christ Jesus, and which does not go away after the story or ride is over.

If you only get one point, let it be this. Conspiracy Theory is fear of men. Simple, disloyal fear. Jesus said, “DO NOT fear.”

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