I have not previously referred to this article on why Adam is old, well, at least I didn’t point people to the link because the page was all trashed up. they fixed it for me.
Here is my article on “Dating Adam” https://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1999/PSCF6-99Morton.pdf
No, it isn’t a chronicle of Adam picking up Eve in his 57 T-Bird and going to the drive-in. It concerns how old Adam is.
You seem to have a problem with keeping the conversation straight.
I was reacting to this.
You made no mention of the water pouring into the basin. In fact we were talking about your “no rain” idea so that would be pre basin filling. But let’s discuss this idea. Yes a water fall generates a spray of liquid water. What happens to the spray? Being heaver than air, most falls back into the water. Some with absorb heat (2264 kJ/kg required BTW) and turn to water vapor. This heat will come from the surrounding air cooling it. You have noticed how cool it gets around a water fall and I was raised in a house cooled by evaporation. So now you have a source of cool moist air. But before you get too excited I will point out that Niagara Falls averages 35.4 inch/year of rain and yet the average for the US is 38 inch/year so it doesn’t seem to contribute to increased rainfall in the vicinity. And your source of moisture has to travel almost 4,000 km to your Eden. Plus you have never proposed how this moisture, if it was to get there, is then lifted high enough to generate rain except to say it was caused by “turbulence”. Enough rain to last for 960 hours, because we know God does not lie.
You seem to have a problem with keeping the conversation straight.
Yes, as I tell my wife, everything is my fault. lol. I see connections between facts and issues that need answering. I am not a linear thinker, which may be why I raise so many things.
Bill wrote*> I was reacting to this.*
Bill said: You made no mention of the water pouring into the basin.
Bill, I have pointed out that the basin was filling up in response to your posts. You clearly didn’t take the effort to read them. My responses below speak about the water pouring into the basin humidifying the air, and mentioned it several times, showing maps.
[quote=“gbob, post:8, topic:42578”]
It doesn’t take a genius to understand the adiabatic lapse rate, and the fact that the spray alone from these 200 mph streams of water would quickly humidify the air at the bottom of this desert
[/quote] post 8 replying to you Did Noah's Flood Kill All Humans except his family? - #8 by gbob
In the Is the Bible Inspired thread, I said this replying to you Clearly you didn’t take time to read what I said:
Estimates vary on the speed by which the Atlantic waters shot into the empty basin.
this guy says max was 40m/s. That is 89 mph
**This fellow says the Med went up a few meters per day. filling atthe rate of 90 sv. --that is 90 million cubic meters of water per second. the speed of the water depends on the size of the hole.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0031018215000735
I go into this because one could start the rain by the turbulence started at the Gibraltar strait and have it move eastward, to create the rain. A numerical simulaton of the influx, using a very small opening, which is not deep enough to bring in the ostracod mentioned by Hsu, has the water moving at 100 m/s
that is 200 mph, which would certainly stir up the atmosphere, causing turbulence, at the east, and once a convection cell started, it’s outwash would force further off areas to go down, and after that even further areas it would force air to rise quicker than the average. Is the Bible Inspired? - #60 by gbob
What part of ‘Atlantic waters shot into the empty basin’ did you not understand?
What part of 'filling at the rate of 90Sv–90 million cubic meters of water per second" did you not understand?
Frankly I think you were so dismissive of what I wrote that you didn’t even bother to understand what I was saying. You ignored what I clearly wrote. And then you say I can’t have a straight line conversation. lol
I spoke of waters moving upward in the basin. Where do waters lie when they are in the basin? At the bottom? Is that logical jump so difficult? I expect people to understand that when a thread is about the catastrophic Mediterranean flood that the water will not fill from the top down!
In fact we were talking about your “no rain” idea so that would be pre basin filling.
So you do understand that the basin is filling with water? How on earth could you have missed that? That is unbelievable to me.
> But let’s discuss this idea. Yes a water fall generates a spray of liquid water. What happens to the spray? Being heaver than air, most falls back into the water. Some with absorb heat (2264 kJ/kg required BTW) and turn to water vapor.
Yes, most falls quickly but you seem to be unaware of Stoke’s law, which governs particle size and terminal velocity. When the upward component of air currents is faster than terminal velocity of the tiny particle, it can be carried upward giving it enough time to absorb the heat and humidify the air.
> This heat will come from the surrounding air cooling it. You have noticed how cool it gets around a water fall and I was raised in a house cooled by evaporation. So now you have a source of cool moist air.
Not necessarily cool, it depends on the starting temperature of the air. and how much is evaporated. You seem to miss these little details. But once you grant me this, as the water continues to rise, the most air will get still cooler, and voila, at the dewpoint, the water condenses again and forms rain. So, yes, the logic of what you say above does get me excited, because it is precisely what will cause the rain. I am excited because you are on the verge of understanding the issue.
> But before you get too excited I will point out that Niagara Falls averages 35.4 inch/year of rain and yet the average for the US is 38 inch/year so it doesn’t seem to contribute to increased rainfall in the vicinity.
I didn’t say Niagara contributed to the rain in New York although it does in a tiny insignificant amount. I was trying to get you to understand that the water filling the Med, beneath the hot air would humidify that air rather quickly, and as it rose, it would condense again to form rain.
Niagara at most covers oh, say, 2 sq miles or so. The waters filling the Med were beneath nearly a million sq miles or 2.5 million square miles of hot dry air and within a short time the water would humidify the air. Now, the upward lift to the air provided by the upward filling water, would be sufficient to cause rain.
And your source of moisture has to travel almost 4,000 km to your Eden.
So? why would distance of travel make it harder for humidification to occur with each mile traveled? the rain won’t start until there is sufficient humidity, either blown in from the west in the form of clouds, or from humidification of the eastern area as the waters poured in. Noah wouldn’t have had to get in the ark until the waters were almost upon him. He could have lived happily for several months before the western mediterranean was filled up. the number on this already posted picture show the order of when things were filled. It took some months to fill the west before the east even began to fill. Notice the numbers 0 1 and 2 at the bottom of the eastern Med. The waters didn’t begin to rise until time 2-3 when the Sicily sill was finally topped. That means it spilled over it.
> Plus you have never proposed how this moisture, if it was to get there, is then lifted high enough to generate rain except to say it was caused by “turbulence”. Enough rain to last for 960 hours, because we know God does not lie.
Bill, You seem to have gone out of your way to avoid the fact that every post I have posted was about the catastrophic FLOODING of the Mediterranean. I have pointed out that the entire basin is filling with water and carrying the humid air upward. That was the very first thing you rejected because your son said that wasn’t possible. Your son is wrong. So you can’t say I haven’t offered an explanation other than turbulence. the turbulence could easily humidify enough air and cause enough turbulence around these 200 mpy waterfalls, to generate a self sustaining convection cell. Your complaint in this last part is nullified by the posts I have quoted at the start of this missive. You must be the only person on Biologos that has missed the entire point of this thread
I notice no mention of your plan and criteria for renaming all those rivers throughout geologic history.
If the liquid water is absorbing heat that means the air is giving up the heat which means the temperature of the air will be lower, i.e. cooler. And cooler air is what? It is denser. And what happens to air that is denser? It falls. I think that is called buoyancy. You need to think about this in terms of the thermodynamics. That is what drives the generation of rain.
But why would it rise? Air rises when it is heated and becomes less dense than the surrounding air or when prevailing winds force air up a mountain slope. The rate at which the surface of the water is rising is not fast enough to impart enough upward velocity to the air to create rain. If you remember I pointed out the upward velocity of air in fair weather cumulus and thunderstorms. They are orders of magnitude higer than the rate the surface of the water is rising.
But in your non-linear thinking you went back to the period of NO RAIN mentioned in Genesis. So to help me out here, how long was it between A&E and the flood?
My son contributed a new micro physics package to one of the models used to forecast weather and developed a new method to forecast severe weather. I think I will take his word over yours.
Did you read what you just wrote? All you have is turbulence and and turbulence is chaotic motion. A convection cell requires an steady updraft of air to initiate rain.
I am reminded of Neil deGrasse Tyson’s quote
What people do in modern history doesn’t say much about what people that lived in pre-history would think. If you were a sheep header in the Neolithic and one day a river suddenly appeared would you just say, “Oh that is the river that used to flow way out over there?” or “Oh look a new river?” And I am pretty sure any name they gave that river would be different from the name used by the people on the other side of the mountain.
Wow. Really?
Humid air rises. Water molecules are lighter than the gases in air. That is 7th grade science class.
Warm air rises. It is less dense than cooler air and therefore “floats” up through the cooler air. That is called buoyancy which should have been part of a general science class in high school.
No a water molecule is heavier than the other gases. It is 2 hydrogen and 1 oxygen atoms which would make it heaver than oxygen. It is also heavier than nitrogen, the main component of air. That is simple high school chemistry.
Edit to add correction:
I forgot free oxygen is mainly O2 which makes it heavier than H2O.
What is the molecular weight of H2O? O2? N2? Finish your homework.
It has been quite a while since I did chemistry in HS and was confusing atomic number with molecular weight. You are right. Based on molecular weight water is lighter than N and O. However, this is a gas and the molecules are in constant motion and therefore mix and don’t separate. Which is a good thing for us.
But a parcel of air, what meteorologists use when they model, rises based on a difference in density of the air which is a function of the temperature of the air. Warm air rises and cold air sinks.
Now talk to me about buoyancy again.
(And yes, warm water vapor rises, too.)
Me too. I’m 71. 
This from the Wikipedia article quoted by gbob.
Note it only mentions air and not water vapor. I could dig out my Metorology 101 text book if you would like the long drawn out technical explaination but I don’t remember which box I packed it in. I read it in self defense so I could have intelligent conversations with my son.
And from the article on rain.
Further questions?
Yes. Why did you bold air and not moist?
It doesn’t rise because it is moist but because it is warm. Warm means lower density. From Wikipedia
And yes air is considered a fluid.
If the air was dry you would not get rain. Warm air that is not moist rises.
Hoo boy.
From your link.
A cold front will lift warm air. Surely you have seen local weather forecasters that describe this. If the lifted air contains enough moisture and conditions are right you get rain. Do you really think a building contractor knows the thermodynamics of rain generation?
Check my link just above. Does your authority make the contractor wrong?
Well I guess this explains why weather forecasts are so inaccurate. They models they use don’t account for this effect. 
You need to let them know they are doing it wrong.
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