This topic has been on my mind for several weeks and I like to present it to this forum to see if some of the views here can enlighten me on the subject.
It is the traditional belief of the church that Jesus retained His humanity after His resurrection and ascension and in fact eternally. He is the God Man forever and He will come with a human body.
My question has to do with the glorious resurrected body of Jesus, the body of Glory. Now, this glorious body is eternal. it is not susceptible to decay or diseases or death or even to any human need such as food or drink. It is not made from flesh and bone nor blood. as far as we can guess, this glorious body is not made from any atoms of this material world such as carbon or water.
Now, in what way can we can this glorious body of Jesus as a human body? I can accept the notion that Jesus is fully God with a glorious body, but it is no longer a human body. there must be a boundary where we can say that this glorious body is still human or it is no longer human.
He ate (John 21) – not that he needed to, he was touchable (John 20), he was recognizable, he spoke, i.e. he retained his physicality (perhaps with some extradimensionality). I’m not sure what else you might be looking for.
Your answer has not addressed my question at all. Of course the glorious resurrected Jesus can eat ( remember Gen 18:8). The more important thing is the part “He does not need to”. Then why He ate? How did this glorious body sustained itself without food or drink? What ia this body made of?
It’s not me trying to define God. It has been defined by the the traditional belief of the Church of the dual nature of the resurrected Christ that Christ retained His humanity and His glorious body is a human body. This is the belief I want to challenge.
During growth, the materials and cell that we contain are almost completely changed. However, we experience ourselves as the same unique person and our identity as ourselves did not change. Therefore, who we are does not depend of the materials that we are composed of. And maybe the same is the case with the resurrected body?
Of course everyone is entitled to his own guess. The resurrected body of Christ is a mystery for us after all. However, in the case of the resurrected body of Christ, there are some accepted facts to consider. This body is eternal and is not sustained by anything material such as food or drink. While this body can exist is our physical material realm, it is more than just that. It exists in the realm beyond this material world and transcend spacetime. (Jesus can appear and disappear whenever He chose in His resurrected body). Then perhaps we can make a good guess of what is or what is not part of this resurrected body by comparing to our own body as part of humanity.
Do we retain our humanity after death?.. after resurrection?
What does the word “humanity” mean in such a context?
According to 1 Cor 15 we are resurrected to a spiritual body not to a physical/natural body. Unlike the body we have now it is imperishable, powerful, and made of the stuff of heaven rather than the dust of the earth.
Do we remain part of the space-time mathematical laws of the universe as is the case for all things physical/natural? I don’t think so. Spiritual things are what they are by their own nature alone, which in our case is what we have made ourselves to be according to our own choices. In a relationship with God with eternal life there are no limitations – the gifts of God are without end and we become more like Him for an eternity.
Does that describe Jesus? I don’t think so. Jesus is God, not becoming more like God for an eternity.
Part of the problem is speaking of heaven like it is a place in a space-time structure. I don’t think that is correct.
What church would that be? There is no such belief stated in the creed of the council of Nicea 325AD.
Arent you ignoring the fact that the eternal destination of the redeemed is on a renewed earth, not heaven. It may be connected to heaven in some wonderful way, but it doesnt cease to be the earth. I strongly suspect the next life, after the resurrection and final judgement, will be much more physical and ‘earthly’ than many realise.
I think youre assuming quite a few things. When Jesus was resurrected, he didnt receive a new body as such, rather his physical body was transformed. It was ‘new’ in that way. That’s why the tomb was empty. His body received life again, but life on a different level.
What evidence do you have that his resurrected body does not contain carbon atoms? Just as the quantum level of reality is pretty weird and non-intuitive, there is no reason to believe the resurrected body, though still physical, can act ‘weirdly’ ,that is, be able to behave far beyond what we currently experience as reality. Before his resurrection, Jesus performed various miracles within the space/time physical universe. For example, when the bread and fish multiplied, that cant happen normally. But does anyone doubt that the multiple fish and bread ceased to still be fish and bread, made up of various physical atoms?
I think too many Christians have an idea of the ‘afterlife’ as floating around in clouds, being ‘spiritual’. Rather their destination is on a renewed earth, probably still eating and drinking (God seems to like his feasts) not because they ‘need’ to eat and drink to survive, but because it’s enjoyable when you have perfect physical health.
In the end much of this is guesswork because noone actually knows for sure, but that’s my tuppence worth.