Was there anywhere in the Bible where Jesus said or implied he was God? Does it matter whether he was God or not?
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Many will disagree but I donât think he was a physical manifestation of Yahweh. I donât think Yahweh wiped his mind, became human and grew up into his own person. I have one god and that god is Yahweh. It says the word was god and is god and i think the word is the power of Yahweh. So I think Yahweh used his power to create a son through Mary and as this boy grew up he was given the authority and power of his father. But I donât think Jesus, even as a ghostly spirit thing or whatever it is, existed before the baby was born. I think Jesus existed only after conception.
I see this is what matters most.
These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. ~John 14:24, John 8:28
When Jesus spoke, who was talking?
Jesus gave them this answer: âVery truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. ~John 5:19
âMen of Israel, hear these words: Yeshua of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know. ~Acts 2:22-28
When Jesus acts, whose Will is being done?
In all things, Jesus only did the Will of God, even unto death. This is why he is worthy and trustworthy to receive all authority in all things. He only does Godâs Will.
In a loud voice they were saying: âWorthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!â ~Revelation 5:12
Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors. ~Isaiah 53:12
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. ~Revelation 19:13
Then Jesus came to them and said, âAll authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." ~Matthew 28:18. " All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.â ~John 16:15
His Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of Godâs glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. ~Hebrews 1:2-3
"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form. ~Col. 2:9,
Who has believed our message and to who has the arm of the Lord been revealed? âNo one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: âThey will all be taught by God.â ~Isaiah 53:1, John 6:44
Jesus answered, âI am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. ~John 14:6, Revelation 1:18
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Yes, lots of places.
Yes, and itâs foundational to orthodox Christianity.
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Both nounally and adjectivally.
Definitely. It is not so cut and dried that it cannot be disputed. But the implications are certainly there.
Words of JesusâŚ
John 30 I and the Father are one.â
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, âI am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him.â 8 Philip said to him, âLord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.â 9 Jesus said to him, âHave I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, âShow us the Fatherâ? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves.
But what convinced me wasnât the words of Jesus but the following passageâŚ
Phillipians 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.
It defines the Christian religion as distinct from other religions like Islam which also sees Jesus as very important⌠but not God.
Imply, definitely, thatâs why they wanted to kill him for blasphemy.
âI and the Father are one.â
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I think one of the main difficulties individuals experience on this topic is the inability to conceptualize the difference between The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, and GOD.
The Bible portrays clearly that there are three persons and one God.
They (each person) are so closely aligned, so closely linked, their thoughts and actions are as one beingâŚGod. simples!
How does that work? If the Son is not the Father, then how can the Son âbe in the Fatherâ, and the Father be in him? Unless itâs talking about the Father and Son both being God.
A bit like in quantum mechanics, what we can say about how the Trinity works is rather complex, involving technical terminology and often being âwe can say this much but not moreâ.
Looking at the context of Jesusâ citations and allusions from the Old Testament provides some less obvious claims to divinity. John records several statements of the form " I am âŚ" that echo Godâs word to Moses. Matthew 21:16: "and they said to Him, âDo You hear what these children are saying?â And Jesus *said to them, âYes. Have you never read, âFrom the mouths of infants and nursing babies You have prepared praise for Yourselfâ?â The quote from Psalm 8:2 is applying what is said of God in the Old Testament to Jesus. These are a couple of quick examples,
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This diagram might help:
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This certainly lacks the clarity of the sort of things we discover in science. The fact is that there is not much we can do to prove what Jesus meant by these words. And no few people have argued that they do not mean that Jesus is God. I would suggest remembering what Jesus said in verse 14:9, âHe who as seen me has seen the Father,â and in verse 10:30, âI and the father are one.â Taken together these rule out many ways of interpreting this.
And here is what Christianity has decided. That although the Son and the Father are different persons they are only one God. That that they are not parts of God, not different modes of God, and not different aspects of God. Most analogies people make from everyday life and things of science are rejected as wrong. Perhaps the closest we can get in everyday things is when we have different names for the same thing. Only it is not just different names but even different persons, and perhaps we can conclude that God is not limited to singularity of personhood any more than most things are limited to a single name.
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Position your cursor to the right of the thread title, left click and hold down, sweep left to the beginning until it turns blue and white, release the left button, right click in the highlight, in the pop-up box go to the 10th item down âSearch in the sidebar forâŚâ. And there you go. A load of evangelical rhetoric. Just like here. Your question, of course, implies that you already know that He never explicitly said that He was. Apart from only in so many words in the book of âJohnâ of course.
So how do you answer you own question?
As someone who has always only used Macs and apple products and is currently making do with just an iPhone, I have to wonder what the heck you just said. Or is this techno Christian speak. Okay Iâll stop that now.
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Klax was using a lot of words to say âSearch Googleâ.
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I donât speak smart .-.
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@MarkD and @Bill_II Martin was directing your attention to the 10th item (slide? index card? frame?) in this thread, and instructing you how to use the slider navigation tool that some of us see on the right hand side. It doesnât work well on my ipad. Doesnât exist on my phone. Itâs terrific on my desktop.
Jonathan Burke used to argue with me on this forum against the divinity of Christ. The mods never weighed in one way or another that I can remember.
- Matthew 26:57-66. Jesus before Caiaphas
- "Those who had arrested Jesus led Him away to Caiaphas, the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were gathered together. But Peter was following Him at a distance, as far as the courtyard of the high priest, and he came inside and sat down with the officers to see the outcome.
- Now the chief priests and the entire Council kept trying to obtain false testimony against Jesus, so that they might put Him to death. They did not find any, even though many false witnesses came forward. But later on two came forward, and said, âThis man stated, âI am able to destroy the temple of God and to rebuild it in three days.ââ The high priest stood up and said to Him, âDo You offer no answer for what these men are testifying against You?â But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, âI place You under oath by the living God, to tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God.â Jesus said to him, âYou have said it yourself. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.â
- Then the high priest tore his robes and said, âHe has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? See, you have now heard the blasphemy; what do you think?â They answered, âHe deserves death!â
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