And if you want to sell a book that undermines orthodox Christianity, you must include in the blurb, "shakes the very foundations of Christianity!"
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Which Surah, what verse?
Accepting your claims, Saint Paul prophesied that, in the End of Earth Time, God Himself would “send a deluding spirit” to humanity on earth “so that they will believe what is false” (2 Thess 2:11)
please acknowledge?
In the OT, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart and sent deluding spirits to king Ahab
OT-NT-K, the God in heaven is universally portrayed as (at times) willing & able to actively delude humans on earth into duped deception
same message, from start to finish
no logical inconsistencies, on that one particular issue
First , let me make it perfectly clear that God does not tell lies.
John 8:44 (NIV2011)
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Jesus is speaking to a group of Jews who said that they were Children of Abraham who have never been slaves, even though their faith celebrates the Exodus when God liberated them from bondage in Egypt, so they were lying.
Jesus was speaking metaphorically about slavery to sin. It seems that His hears understood this and were in effect saying that that did not need to be liberates from sin because they were God’s Chosen People. It is this kind of lie based on arrogance that leads to judgment by God, which is why Jesus rejected these Alternate Facts.
Jesus says that Satan tells lies and is incapable of telling the truth. On the other hand God is not human, God does not tell lies and to think that God does is just wrong.
First rule of Bible interpretation. Jesus is God’s Word, not the Bible. All understanding of the Truth flows from Jesus and from elsewhere secondarily. .
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 (NIV2011)
9 The coming of the Lawless One will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,
10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
A full analysis of this text, as opposed to a proof text, demonstrates that Satan sends the lying spirits, the Alternative Facts, which Satan’s people believe and sets them against Christ in support of the Man of Lawlessness or Anti-Christ.
For some reason Paul thought that God had to help Satan with his work of deceiving sinners. I find that sin is more than powerful enough to deceive those who want to be deceived, just as Pharaoh did not really need any encouragement to defy YHWH. It is not easy to understand the basis of evil and freedom in this world, but if you had read my essay on God and Freedom on Academia.edu, you would see where I am coming from.
To understand the Bible, you need to look at today’s events. It is clear that for some time there has been a strong delusion in our world. Millions of people believe that the universe was created in 6 days despite vast evidence that it was not. They were willing to believe bad theology about the “letter of the Torah” instead of good theology about “the Logos of God.”
Now many evangelical Christians believe that Pres. Obama is the Anti-Christ and the Man of Lawlessness is God’s Messiah. All because this is what they want to believe for their own reasons.
God did not deceive these people. God did not create these lies. Self serving leaders and politicians did. These of us who know the truth need to speak out or be swallowed up in this horrible mess.
There are several ways that Allah lies in the Quran. The first is the most important.
4:157 And for their (the “Jews”) saying , We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the Son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah, and the killed him not, nor did they killed him not, nor did they cause his death upon the cross, but he was made it to appear as such. …. they killed him Not for certain.
4:159 And there is none of the people of the Book but will believe in this before3 his death; and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.
So what the Quran, which is the actual Words of Allah, says is that Jesus did not die on the Cross, but only appeared to die on the Cross. Without any type of explanation we must assume that Allah caused him to appear to die, which was a lie. Of course this contradicts the New Testament which is also claimed as an inspired Book of Allah, so how could it be a lie.
4:157 and 9 again deny that Jesus died on the Cross, and also clams that Jesus will witness on the Judgement Day against those Christians who say Jesus died on the Cross for their sins.
3:53 And the Jews (the opponents of Jesus) planned (to kill Jesus) and Allah (also) planned. And Allah is the best planner. The Quran compared the actions of the Pharisees, their plotting and lying, the scheming of Allah, concluding that Allah was the most effective plotter, because He prevented Jesus from being crucified. The Romans pay no role in this account. Since the Pharisees lied, it is reasonable to say that Allah lied by making it appear Jesus died when He did not, or lying about it when Jesus did die on the Cross.
God may not be the very first initial initiator of lies & sin – such may be the exclusive activity of Satan
nevertheless, once sin (from Satan) does take root into human dupes, then God forsakes them as they forsook God, and “rides the horse in the direction it was going” unto Doom
For some reason? You mean, because the Holy Spirit from God in heaven inspired him to say & write those very words?
God makes some vessels, like Pharaoh, for destruction. God summoned & sent lying spirits to Ahab. God sends a “deluding spirit” to dis-believers in the End Times causing them “to believe the lie”.
God…actively…causes…lies to be believed as true
Actively deceives
God may not be the very initial author of sin, but once a sinner forsakes God the first time, then after that, from then on, God forsakes the sinner, and all bets are off:
YHWH searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: If thou seek Him, He will be found of thee; but if thou forsake Him, He will cast thee off forever.
1 Chronicles 28:9
With all due respect, you are mentally “defanging God”, turning God into “pure positivity” which is not Biblical
Deception, correct
All war is deception, and YHWH is a warrior (Ex 15:3), The Warrior Supreme – there is no better Maskirovka super-deception than Heaven’s
YHWH wages war against His enemies, and “has never lost yet in a hundred million years” (so to speak)
Absolutely false. That is the Lie of Satan the Accuser The Good News of Jesus Christ.is that God loves us BEFORE we hove God. The thief on the cross was saved after a life of crime.
God does not forsake us until we can no longer accept God, until we are dead. When God sends someone to Hell, that is not deception. That is allowing them their choice. God cannot and does not force people to love.
What is your proof? When Paul contradicts Jesus, Jesus is right.
Are you claiming that God actively is causing you to believe this lie you have written is true? Otherwise you have no evidence. Jesus is God’s Word.
No one is defanging God. God has more than enough power without you and Islam making God mean and petty. Saul persecuted God’s people, nut Jesus rescued him from his sin, so he became Paul. Jesus died on the Cross so one thief was saved, but the other was not.
God is not mocked. We reap what we sow, but if you think that you can be saved based on your own strength and arrogance, you are sadly mistaken. Legalism of every stripe is false and will hugely disappoint the unwary.
Which is a Lie, the NT or the Quran? One must be.
No responsible theologians should base their theology on one proof text and certainly an OT proof text. Jesus is not a Warrior and a Deceiver. Muhammad was a warrior, which probably why he portrayed Allah as one too.
All war is not deception. YHWH delivered the Hebrews by telling Pharaoh exactly what would happen. No tricks, no deception.
Maybe that is how Soviets, the KGB, and Vladimir Putin fight a war, because they are weak and ugly. YHWH is not. Jesus is not. The USA is not.
Again much of the US is under a deception. Do you think it is caused by God?
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That is totally on Biblical. Saint Peter a pillar Apostle already vouched for the orthodoxy of Saint Paul in 2 Peter 3.
If there is a conflict between Saint Paul and you then Saint Paul defines orthodoxy correct?
Revelation 19?
Upon those who do love him the father sends his Holy Spirit guiding them until truth.
But of those who do not love him, he sends deluding spirits. Driving them towards greater falsehood.
Like it or not, that’s what the father has told humanity in the Bible.
I am sure that St. Peter and St. Paul would agree that the words of Jesus take precedence over theirs…
Revelation covers the Last Times when Jesus helps carry out the Judgement. At that time that is no deception. Only blinding truth.
If Jesus were the Warrior Messiah that you seem to think He was, then the world would look very different today. He would have cleansed the world from God’s opponents which would not have left many people. The Disciples and their descendants would still be the rulers of the world.
Please stop spreading falsehood. Humans are basically sinners. Given our natural proclivity we do Not love God, we love ourselves, so no one would be saved God would have to send deluding spirits to everyone.
If you say that that somehow some of us deserve the Holy Spirit by loving God, that is false and contrary to the teaching of Jesus Christ.
Sorry, that is a libel. The Father is patient, but do not test His patience.
Their words are nothing but Christ’s
You think Jesus made a mistake in choosing his terrestrial “Apostles” ? His chosen 12 mis-represented His teachings??
That is libel against Saints Peter & Paul, the principle Apostles to Jews & gentiles, i.e. the whole entirety of humanity
You know there’s another chapter (Rev 20) ?
After the Millennium, Satan was loosed to once again deceive the world, as Gog & Magog wreak havoc on earth, and sinners, having forsaken God on their own, having rejected the HS of Truth on their own, are therefore given a deluding spirit of lies
Add-up encourage Samuel to lie against the soldiers of Saul [1 Sam 16]
What all these types of examples have in common is best described by Paul in Rom 1, those with a reprobate mind, Pharaoh, Saul, Ahab.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
God may decide to use people beyond hope for His purpose.
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“The Lord Giveth AND the Lord take it away”
“Carrot AND stick” so to speak.
Ultimately, this could explain how the God in heaven manipulates. Evolution on Earth to create (“Cultivate AND cull”) man in his desired image. According to Theistic evolution.
How can a loving God use people?
I will make it harder -
Pharaoh is the prime example in Scripture of a reprobate mind. In Egypt a Pharaoh was a god, the exodus story is not only about the deliverance of slavery of the offspring of Abraham but also (and maybe foremost) a demonstration of the real God versus self declared human gods. And God used Pharaoh to demonstrate His power, He even said:
Exo 9:16 - But for this purpose I have raised you [Pharaoh] up, to show you my power, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.
In justice, sometimes (emphasis added) people are set a harsh example as a warning for others. Purpose matters.
God loves those, who love Him?
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Matthew 5:43-48 (NIV2011)
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
In case you missed this section of the Sermon on the Mount, God loves everyone.
@ProDeo , NT excuse the expression trumps OT. Don’t you think that there is enough evil in this world without God making it worse. Do you really think YHWH would enclave God’s People just to embarrass Pharaoh. Yes, God allow evil people to do wrong. S., God does not force them to do wrong instead of right.
God guides evolution to created rational spiritual beings, God does not manipulate us. Everyone lives and everyone dies. Life and death do not explain evolution. Death is not a punishment. God encourages humans to do good and discourages them to do evil. that is because God lives all of them, not because God loves some and hates others. That is how sinners the unredeemed think and act.
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
“How can a loving God use people?”
Easily!
Sin makes people into robots. They have no control over themselves. They are just automatic reactions to the things around them. When people turn themselves into such a thing. How can they complain when we push their buttons? And why shouldn’t God use those “buttons” to make the world a better place?
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So no way they can repent? This is contradictory to the message of Christ. Like what. Judas for example couldnt repent? He was doomed? How can a loving and fair God do that?
Yes people can repent. Sometimes they can even gather up a few remaining fragments of their free will and make a change in their life. One of the best ways to do this is by taking advantage of the context dependence of our bad habits, so that by changing our environment we can make a break with those bad habits. By doing so they usually experience a great deal of liberation and recover more of their free will – as long as they stay away from those situations which suck them back into their old way of life.
But these are an example of people who are not being robotic in their sins with buttons so easy to push and if God makes use of them then it is more likely by giving them a challenge to help in His providence rather than simply pushing buttons. But like I basically said before… if you turn yourself into a robot then how can you complain when you are treated like a robot? And if you are used to make the world a better place then why be anything but grateful?
Sin does not make people into robots. They always have the basic free will to say No to sin and Yes to God. No one is saying this is easy, but life is not easy. Many people today need to put themselves at the mercy of Jesus before it is too late.
What I said was not meant as an accusation, just that it requires an explanation.
Oh yes it does. It’s not black and white. It is a progressive degeneration. But sin consists of habits which are addictive. It is a rather well known fact of human behavior that when you do a thing once it not only becomes easier the next time but it also becomes harder and harder to stop. Our bad habits change us, sometimes even down to the chemical level.
I will argue like the devil for the existence of free will, the denial for which I think is detached from the reality of human existence. But there is nothing absolute about free will. To think that is even more detached from the realities of human existence. Our freedom of will is affected a large number of things outside of ourselves such as damage, illness, drugs, and yes even the habits we form.
So yes a great many people have made themselves into robots – the living dead as Jesus referred to them in Luke 9:60.