And sorry if i offended someone with my answer of 1 John 2:19. I just thought that was what he was implying.
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It needs to be seen, and understood. Christians need to understand what their âteachingâ can mean to those who do not share their viewpoint. Christ would be turning in His grave if He had one.
Richard
Sorry richard that you got upset.
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You did not upset me. That honour goes to others on this and another site.
Richard
Actually Stephen, I think it important that you are here, if nothing else but to remind us all that these are not just philosophical
and theologic discussions, but that real people we care about are intimately involved. That was one of the takes aways I got from the recent Science Mike podcast when he described his calling to help those in faith transitions.
Thank you for sharing your perspective.
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Thanks, Nick. That verse is quite transparent, and a small multitude of others supporting it are quite clear as well. Donât be too concerned with the hypersensitivity of a few here.
Itâs not a problem, Nick. I hope you have found some perspectives helpful (though feel free to unfollow if the topic is no longer helping you), but discussions about this topic can get pretty intense regardless of who asks the question.
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âManyâ I think is overstating it, and you can examine your own heart and know what it desires most supremely. As you know from our PMs, I consider you my brother.
He did, on both counts.
Thank you for your gracious attitude, Mr Pappas. I think that this has been a good discussion. Good question; and I have learned a lot. Blessings!
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The many severe warnings are for real Christians, not faked ones.
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this seems like a good point . One would wonder why anybody would get a warning, if they were fake Christians. What would they be falling away from?
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The Parable of the Sower describes 4 types of people. Of them 3 are believers. Of those 3 believers 2 lose faith and Jesus explains why. Deceptive hearts are not meantioned.
orâŚ
Luke 22:31 - âSimon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, 32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail.
I have made a habit to so now and then ask Jesus to also pray for me.
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They are in Jeremiah 17:9. I still have seen no compelling arguments as to why you can ignore all the scripture with words like chosen, elect, predestined, etc. Maybe a low view of scripture helps. Free will / personal responsibility and election are both taught in scripture, and it has to do with Godâs relationship to our sequential timeline, as already discussed.
âŚis a parable, not a treatise on election.
Inappropriate. People come to different interpretations all the time, there is no need to cast aspersions on their view of Scripture because they disagree with you.
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He [Jesus] was foreknown before the foundation of the world 1 Pet 1:20 [ESV]
[Jesus] Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world 1 Pet 1:20 [KJV]
He [Jesus] was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world [Rev 13:8]
Before creation and the first sin (of A&E) Jesus was already foreknown / foreordained / predestnated / to be the Lamb slained.to reconcile the not yet created (and fallen) world with the Father.
I can only explain that as God looking into time (one of His inventions) knowing every outcome, knowing all our choices. As such I see predestination, elect, chosen.
What about Judas? Was he predestined or did he have free will? The answer is âYes.â
I donât know whatâs so hard to comprehend phrases like: By the foreknowledge of God. Before creation God already knew how everything would playout all the way to the end, the new Jerusalem coming down from heaven. This includes the decision of Judas to betray Jesus.
You donât see a difference between foreknowledge and predestination, election and soothsaying. I donât think it is too difficult a distinction to understand.