Cryptocrhistians

So cryptochristian to my country at least it is a name people give to those Christians who are publicly reject Christ but in truth they are believers. Usually the term refers to those Christians denying Christ under persecution. Now my question is : Are they going basically against the scriptures? Didnt Christ said but who also denies me before men i will also deny him?

Sounds like it to me. I could no more deny that I have a heavenly Father and an Elder Brother than to deny I had an earthly father (and have an older sister :slightly_smiling_face:).

Yeah although i can understand their situation.

I think the problem is that they are going to have a very hard time holding on to their Christianity when they do this. If they are Christian, then will they not read the Bible? But then, what will they see the Bible saying about them because of this? On the other hand, let everyone understand that details are important and nobody can really judge this worth a ■■■■ but God Himself.

It may seem an easy thing from a man like me (or you but im speaking of me because im just waiting for my suffering to end) but for them that might be difficult. Maybe they have been witnesses to some torturing of other Christians and cannot bear it.

I can see them being immature and ill-informed, maybe not having access to a Bible and not having been taught, but that seems a stretch. If they are truly Christian, they would surely weep upon being educated of their betrayal. The Sermon on the Mount is pretty elementary, and the rewards for faithfulness quite clear. Even young Christians should be aware of it. I have read accounts of children being faithful and refusing when spitting on the Bible was demanded of them, and the like. That is the kind of heart Father desires.

I can too. It’s easy for us in relatively free countries to posture about how we would or wouldn’t behave under persecution, but most of us have very little experience with persecution at all, much less of the violent kind. Is it a problem in Greece right now?

Not really. We face mockery since there are a lot of new age atheists? or something like that here. But no we dont face physical persecution.

Thats why when they ask me if i believe in God i like to answer" I like to keep my beliefs private" . It that like against the scriptures as well? I didn’t think about it till now

Watch the movie Silence (or read the book) before judging. Lots of food for thought.

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Ive seen the movie. Incredible. The priest although rejected christ publicly he died a Christian

As an example of the importance of details. Consider the story of Schindler in “Shindler’s List.” If you don’t know the whole story you might judge him for using the Jews as slave labor and not speaking out on his opposition to the extermination of the Jews in Nazi Germany.

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I wouldn’t necessarily see it that way, especially if you’re in a situation where you may expect mockery or an ungracious attitude from the person you’re talking to. Boundaries can be wise, especially if you have a reason to think someone is just out to trap you with words. But you never know when you may meet a fellow believer, or someone who needs some hope, and sometimes simple things you say can mean more than you know. I’m reminded of 1 Peter 3, where Peter says:

But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.

This sounds like a general willingness to share basic truths about our hope as Christians, not something to be guilted or brow-beaten into.

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This is more likely applicable in the U.S. :slightly_smiling_face: (@NickolaosPappas – the Babylon Bee is a Christian satire site that used to be free, but now requires a subscription, I think, although this is an old one and I didn’t get a paywall when I pulled it up) –

I personally know quite a few Christians from China. They face serious persecution. I think there is often a difference between flat out apostasy and denying Christ, and not always being honest with the government in order to avoid a world of hurt. Lots of Christians around the world have to practice their faith in secret. There are competing priorities that need to be ranked many times. In the ethical questions area, I usually come down pretty hard in the “yes, you definitely lie to the Nazis and Communists to protect the innocent” category.

I think we have a Western cultural propensity to value rules over relationships and our responsibilities to them, and the Bible isn’t a hard and fast rule book. In fact, one thing it pretty clearly demonstrates is that grace makes lots of exceptions to the rules.

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Amen. Mercy trumps law.

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Very interesting thread! Here’s a quote from BBC: “One of the paradoxes of Japanese Christian history is that if all Japanese Catholics had refused to trample on the fumie and instead chosen to die as martyrs, Christianity in Japan would also have died,” said Mr Hull.
“It is only because some made an existential decision to trample on the fumie, despite their belief that this action was gravely sinful, that Christianity in Japan was able to survive.”

https://randalrauser.com/2014/09/could-it-ever-be-right-to-deny-christ/

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I feel scripturally there are a few things to consider.

  1. Jesus tell christians that they will be hated because he was hated. He warns them about the upcoming persecution and does tell them if they deny him before men he will deny them before God. But the whole chapter of , Matthew 10, has a lot to
    It. It begins with I send you as wolves so be sly as serpents and innocent as doves. It mentions if they Persecute you to flee to another city. There is a lot there to imply confessing means even in the face of perfect. But I believe it leaves room to interpret it as more than just on a individual level. I think it’s more along the line that if you are a Christian you do need to practice it including preaching and living righteously. You can’t keep it secret overall. I feel overall is the key paradigm. You can feed the homeless, help the sick and preach about Christ but then lie to a dictator who will mangle you and throw you from a mountain.

The story of Rahab fits. In Joshua 2 a woman named Rehab lied to protect the Israeli spies. But the Bible also says this.

James 2:25 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

Her works included lying to protect them. In the end God knows our hearts and I think to deny Christ does not mean necessarily as a few times to those who wish you harm but overall. There is a difference between someone lying to a deadly man and lying because they don’t want to be mocked. Or believing but not doing anything about it. That faith would be dead. It seems God has allowed a bit of gray. With that said, the stories in the gospel also seems to indicate Peter did something wrong by denying Christ before these who was about to murder Christ.

That has been my take on it as well, but your post makes me rethink it a bit. Peter was somewhat arrogant and prideful about his loyalty and faith, with false bravado, and perhaps that was his real sin, and the denial was a learning experience bringing him into humility and submission, teaching him to relate to the struggles of those he would later reach with the gospel.

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Well, we need to consider Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus who were secret disciples.

They “came out” when the time was right.


John 19:38

[ The Burial of Jesus ] After these things, Joseph of Arimathea, who was a disciple of Jesus, though a secret one because of his fear of the Jews, asked Pilate to let him take away the body of Jesus. Pilate gave him permission; so he came and removed his body

“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6

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