trashes BioLogos

Debating an historical Adam and the destruction of the Gospel

BioLogos, theistic evolution and the Pelagian heresy

They point out that “Today we are blessed with mountains of scientific evidence supporting the biblical record of a recent creation followed by a global flood and all humans originating with Adam and Eve.”

Sounds about right.


As stated before I’m always glad when they do that. The reality is that almost no adult who learns evolution and learns why they can accept it and trust the scientific consensus leaves it. I hear “ creationist “ stories of atheists who turn to young earth creationism but the reality is that when you begin to question them they can’t explain the process. They never learned it and never really knew why they believed it. So essentially very few , if any, ever leaves truly a sorting science for YECism. But almost all evolutionary creationist at some point believed in YEC/OEC. So the more they talk about it, the more likely some young YECist will look into it to debate it or see what it’s about and learn YECism is silly.


“Mountains of scientific evidence”

Literally no where have I seen valid proof that we all started from Adam and Eve. Most science websites and informational stuff, such as Wikipedia and LiveScience, will state that the first humans began in Africa, which can still fit in with the Bible if we consider how the world (supposedly) used to be one giant super continent, and would probably place Africa near the Middle East.


We, the immensely privileged, have to be careful.

It still is.

Probably should’ve worded that better. Closer to the Middle East than it is now.

How much closer does right next door have to get?

In other words, the only possible way for sin to exist in the world is for Adam to exist? Personally I believe that Adam existed. But I also look around me and see sin, in myself, and in humanity. I don’t have any problem accepting the gospel message that Jesus died and rose for humans because we obviously need it. The idea that it’s all nullified if Adam and Eve are archetypes makes no sense to me. None of this automatically equates to “we can live a sin-free life.”

But anyway, I don’t usually feel the need to keep reading when an article throws out terms like “professing Christian.” As in, he says he is but we have our doubts because Adam.

Also, stating that Francis Collins “uncritically accepts evolution over millions of years” is just laughable. As a well-trained and experienced scientist, I’m betting he knows a lot more about critical examination of scientific data than most writers for YEC websites.


More than most. ; - )

A paleontologist being told that they are “brainwashed” for accepting evolution is even more spectacular (not that I have personally been told so, but I have seen a general statement or two to the effect).


People don’t see sin in this world? It’s like going to Alaska and not seeing the snow.


It is interesting how what the article says about the views of BioLogos seem to bear little resemblance to what BioLogos actually says. I could be wrong, but as far as I know, BioLogos has no official position on whether Adam and Eve were historical figures or archetypes. Also to be Pelagian, BioLogos would have to deny the reality of original sin not the historical Adam. As far as I know, the founders of BioLogos believe in the reality of original sin.

I myself tend towards the view that Adam was historical in some way, but for a more straightforward reason, he is listed as one of the ancestors of Jesus. It is hard to be literally descended from an archetype. I am not saying that it proves Adam was historical or that a non-historical view of Adam is theologically unacceptable, simply that Adam being listed in Jesus’ family line implies that Adam was in some way a real historical person, even if he was just a Mesopotamian farmer with a special relationship with God and not literally the ancestor of all humans, just a thought.

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So many mountains. I read the first few paragraphs of the article, and (I’m sorry) it was just too hamfisted for me to continue on. Plus, it’s the same old YEC stuff. The reciting of a mantra, not some new perspective.

If someone began citing how difficult YEC is to accept in light of the evidence, I’d be more prone to want to listen to their argument. But when you come out of the gate beating your chest like a gorilla, I’m reminded of how plausible it is that we evolved from hominids.

Anyway, congratulations on being denounced by these people. You’re obviously doing something right.


I see what you did there!


A couple of reflections on this article:

First, Pelagius didn’t think Jesus’ death was non-sensical, he believed that Jesus’ death was a moral example to inspire humanity to pursue a more virtuous way of life. But the handling of what BL believes gives me the impression that this article is not interested in a balanced portrayal of the facts.

It doesn’t even feel like it is about BioLogos… not really. This article reads as if it is about CMI’s reader base, or more explicitly shoring up the edges of that base.

On the plus side, maybe that means that CMI see BioLogos as a threat… so they must be doing something right. :joy:

[I’ve have retrospectively edited this post]


Articles like this also make me thankful that BL doesn’t engage in this kind of mudslinging tactics.


Biologos is on to a loser as long as it remains damnationist, as long is it cannot get past the dark heart of Christianity which it shares with creationists, in which it is literalist. How long before a moderator deletes this post as usual? Because the truth of it can’t be challenged otherwise.

Klax, you have made a public statement about the conduct of the moderators, so I will give you a public response.

You know full well that ‘challenging the truth’ is not the reason that your posts get deleted. They get deleted because you make ungracious, sweeping generalisations about individuals and groups that contravene the forum guidelines.


Sir, I must avail myself of those.

Although if you can point to a gracious non-damnationist view by anyone else here, that would be good.

Paging, @Mervin_Bitikofer.

“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6

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