Still apt:
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Have you read this? It speaks directly to your question (by an epidemiologist):
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The virus is what causes the cytokine storm. This is basic immunology.
It seems that all you have to offer is denial of basic facts and completely unfounded conspiracy theories.
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Not true. If a claim is denied in the process, they can then take it civil court as I read it. Read the link… It also makes it easier to get a claim paid as 42% of claimants got compensation as opposed to 24% who go through standard litigation, so it benefits the consumer as well. If you have a smaller claim, you will not find an attorney to take the case on contingency. It does provide protection for the drug companies, which allows them to develop new vaccines, otherwise, no one in their right mind would be in the business due to all the harassment and unfounded suits. This allows them to know their risks.
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Oh come on, surely in one of your alleged past lives in ancient times (before humanity learned about germ theory) you witnessed plagues and pestilence mowing down people like dried grass.
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I’m sorry, I didn’t read it carefully enough the first time. You are right they still are able to make a claim. I don’t know about harassments because this is in the US and I am in Australia. However we have had cases, two that I heard of one straight after the other where infants were forced to be vaccinated against the parents’ wished and both infants died within minutes of getting vaccinated. I am not against vaccinations but I am against forced vaccinations.
I am not saying that plagues don’t happen. They do happen, however they happen when a very large number of people, sometimes most people, are seriously stress. We can see for instance that the times of the plagues in Europe and in Asia were times of wars or oppressions. They didn’t happen in peace times and the rats or whatever are blamed were still around. Our immune system is awesome but it has to be working to full capacity to fight infections. However if there are ideas of damage the immune system can be ignited and attack healthy cells in areas where the person believes there is damage…
The cytokine storms, which translate to “massive inflammation”, mainly in the lungs of which people died, and to a lesser extent had appeared in other areas of the body, are not due to the virus. Most doctors I have seen on youtube say “we don’t know what caused the cytokine storms”.
Of the people that get infected and where it is known
80% have mild or no symptoms.
15 to 20% get sick with pneumonia and that is being attributed to the virus.
4% get cytokine storms and multiple organ failure. Is this due to the virus? It does appear to be.
Sorry, but that is just false. You might as well claim that people who get shot actually die from blood loss and not from the bullet.
If the doctors are claiming that the virus did not cause the cytokine storm then they should lose their medical license.
It is definitely the case.
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I have already explained this in a post to you above. It was seen in clinical trials in the early years testing chemotherapy drugs.
The doctors are not openly saying the virus did not cause the cytokine storms. They are saying we don’t know what causes the cytokine storms, which leaves it quite open to “it could have been the immune system’s reaction to the virus”, which is a hypothesis that has been made.
Your argument is sounding more and more like a denial due to gaps. So long as there is any room for uncertainty you’re prepared to accept that the presence of COVID in patients who get sick or die is just a coincidence. People also die without COVID present in their bodies after all. Don’t you see how absurd this line of argument is?
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I have to wonder if there is virus always found in the body. There are plenty of false positives and false negatives and there are very few autopsies done.
The presence of the virus is coincident with the cytokine storms, but it is not so simple. If a person get sick, even with the common flu and they are suspected as having the corona virus AND if they have related, inhumane people with some agenda, then the idea that the virus is dangerous and harmful and assumed present in their body, whether or not it is, can be used to mentally present ideas that it is damaging the lungs or the brain etc. This would ignite the person’s immune system to clear away the damaged cells. However the cells are not damaged so the inflammation only damages healthy cells. And we can see from the massive cytokine storms/ inflammation that this is not something that would happen due to the presence of the virus. The virus may be present but not the cause of the immune response.
I have tried to find Dr. Lissa Rankin’s video on Mind over Medicine on youtube but I still haven’t found the right one. Anyway in it she mentions the early chemotherapy drug trials were people lost their hair and vomited due to believed damage owing to the drug. However these people were in the placebo/ control arm and in those days only had a sugar pill or saline solution.
Here in point 8 and 9 Dr. Rankin disputes the virus and points to the other problem of the ignited immune response due to belief. .
9)That the scientifically proven “nocebo effect” (the opposite of the well studied and poorly understood “placebo effect”) isn’t amplifying what might have been a relatively benign outbreak were it not for a media-driven pandemic of terror and fear.
8) That this novel human illness we’re calling COVID-19 is 100% for certain viral in origin.
I was encouraged to read her #5 included since I’ve been suspicious of those who speak of herd immunity as though such a response could be counted on in all cases for any and all pathogens.
5) That once you have a positive COVID test, you will be immune and contribute to herd immunity. We do not have any idea whether having had COVID-19 once confers future immunity. So why are the “experts” and the mainstream media floating the story that mass testing (with inaccurate tests) will allow those who are positive to safely come out of lockdown?
However I think this part of her preamble will only add to the rampant assumption that using ones own noggin to sift through whatever one can glean from ones preferred news sources, YouTube and social media is as good or better than expert opinion.
I told him I was also motivated to gather this list because I see people either rigidly complying with the rules of our leaders—and shaming everyone who doesn’t. I see others blindly rebelling against the rules with no apparent concern for public safety. Both are the result of trauma and conditioning early in childhood. I was conditioned to blindly comply with authority, so I have a tendency to just do as I’m told. Other people I know were conditioned to blindly rebel against authority, automatically resisting if anyone tells them what to do. Blind compliance is how Nazi Germany happened. Outright rebellion by not abiding by quarantine guidelines can compromise what’s good for the collective. “Now is the time,” I told Gabor, “for us to neither blindly comply nor automatically rebel. Now is the time to Self-lead our parts, letting what I call your “Inner Pilot Light”) take the lead in your decision-making.” Self-leadership is not selfish; it doesn’t just consider what’s good for you. Because the divine essence of you is also connected to the divine essence of all beings, this center of your being can make wise decisions that expand to include all other beings. Compliant parts can put us at risk of becoming blind sheeple in the midst of corrupt leaders that could silence us when we need to be speaking out. Rebellious parts can behave like tantruming toddlers who feel entitled to freedoms they’re not entitled to when public health is at risk. We need the inner children in us to calm down so the wise adults can lead our behavior. We also need to question the dominant narrative until we have better science—and better morals—informing those in positions of leadership.
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I seriously doubt there is any herd immunity at all. It is a way that the pharmaceutical companies have rallied the public behind them in forced vaccinations. It is purely a selling strategy.
A lot of people are led to believe that vaccination IS immunization. A lot of people believe that if you get vaccinated you can’t get infected, you are protected from contacting the pathogen. This is very wrong.
A vaccine only give one the advantage of having antigens ready in waiting should they ever get infected. That is all.
A person’s immune system has to be working to full potential to use the antibodies. If a person is stressed and has some fear of some external danger over time, e.g., fear of losing their job, then their immune system will be declined to some extent. It is possible for them to get infected and get sick and even die of the disease.
And there is another important point which is that a person, who is infected, vaccinated or not vaccinated, will be infectious for some time until their immune system has fought off the pathogen. Certainly a vaccinated person potentially will be infectious for a shorter period of time BUT still infectious to others. So where is the herd immunity?
Who???
If I find tons of other doctors who do state that the virus causes cytokine storms, will you accept their conclusions?
You are trying to claim that viruses don’t even exist. Perhaps you should start there.
Completely unfounded. Name a single scientific study that has demonstrated this claim.
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Phil, please note that Dr Fauci and others are acknowledging that the trial will not sufficiently test viral challenge as they estimate as low as 100-200 challenges and they are looking at the difficult proposition of direct challenge to vaccinated volunteers.
That may be true, as those numbers were pulled from a hat, but may not be that far off, if they can get volunteers in high risk groups in areas of high incidence. In one hospital, they found that over 30 percent of health care workers got Covid, even in areas away from the Covid ward. That is a high number, but if you get 30,000 in a phase 3 trial, a 10 % infection rate would give you 1500 in the unvaccinated group. Now, the nature of trials is such that if you start out with 30000, you may wind up with 15000 finishing the trial. The fly in the ointment may also be that of the 1500 infected, 1000 may be asymptomatic and only picked up by antibody testing in the course of the study. At lot depends on how prevalent the disease remains in the tested population.
Your are quite correct that it will not be easy to parse out the numbers into meaningful data.
Phil. The risk elephant in the room and what we must be very aware is ADE antibody dependent enhancement. It is very possible that ADE can happen with this virus and vaccine. We have to determine that the vaccine will not result in this ADE and that requires a large number of virus challenges. It would be more than disasterous if a vaccine results in ADE which has been seen with SARS and other coronaviruses.
How are we going to be able to determine this if we don’t start vaccinating people?
I agree we have to test the vaccine and challenge them. Antibody dependent enhancement ADE is a well known effect particularly with coronaviruses. Where are the animal studies? I know what is it monkeys exaggerate and mice lie. Still they are needed.
The no brainer and which would be a highly likely event to occur is to vaccinate and then to challenge with a non SARS coronavirus cold to see how these volunteers respond. This will happen on a mass vaccination and we need to know that.
Also we should and probably will test how someone that has had the virus responds to vaccination and then again challenge with a cold coronavirus. These are likely events that we need to determine their consequences before mass vaccinations.