You seemed to be confused on the subject of asymptomatic carriers. Someone who is immune/protected will not have an asymptomatic infection. They will have no infection at all.
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Well we don’t really know. These T cell immune population may have only partial immunity to the Covid 19 virus and may still be infected but fight it off not developing symptoms. Are they spreaders?
I suspect that a vaccine may provide only partial immunity to some people which would still develop a mild infection but will they be spreaders?
I am looking forward to vaccine.
Even if it is only 50% effective, with all the people who have virus already, a vaccine will give herd immunity.
Georgia has about 11 million people. Already 2 million+, 18-20% or so, have had the virus. If the rest of us take the vaccine (minus a few antivaxxers), then we will have herd immunity. And life can return to normal.
I don’t know. But I can imagine the population control advocates have been around for 1000’s of years. Disease is a great way to control populations.
China has been at it for some time.
Thanks steve for your reply, I respect that you have knowledge in this area. Where have I specifically been mislead? Are you speaking for the entire scientific community or is this just your personal/professional opinion?
Yes, I’m speaking for essentially the entire scientific community – the people you’re getting your info from represent a tiny fringe group. As to what you’ve been misled about, for starters, giving any kind of credence to people like Wakefield and Mikovits. See here and here for info about Mikovits and here here for info about the outright fraud committed by Wakefield.
More broadly, there is no conspiracy. There are millions of doctors and biomedical researchers in the world, the great majority with no financial stake in hiding a dark truth about vaccines or with any ulterior motive, really – most of us got into this line of work to help people. It’s simply not possible to get 99.99% of any group that diverse to buy into a conspiracy. No one is trying to control the population by killing a lot of people, or to exercise world control through microdots, or whatever. We want the covid-19 pandemic to be over just as much as the next person (I’d like to be able to go back to work, for example, and not be afraid of going to the dentist, which I’m doing this afternoon).
This is not to say that vaccine safety should be assumed: it should be constantly and rigorously scrutinized. Human bodies, and in particular human immune systems, are complex and we should always be on the lookout for the possibility that some vaccine is causing subtle harm. I’ve raised kids, and I’ve been vaccinated plenty of times – I want to know that vaccination is truly safe. But that scrutiny is only going to be successful when it comes through the biomedical research community. If anything, the anti-vax movement has made vaccines less safe – I fear they’ve so poisoned the discussion with wild accusations of conspiracies and slander of good people that genuine concerns are harder to hear now.
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Disease is a terrible way to control populations in the modern world, especially a disease like covid-19 that kills less than 1% of those infected. The effective way to control population size is well-known now: better health care and disease prevention, education (especially of women), food security, and access to contraception. When those are in place, birth rates plummet.
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Herd immunity is a myth. A vaccine does not afford immunity. All it does is to give the person an advantage in developing antibody ready to be used by the immune system before an infection. It does not stop infection.
Infection is the entry of a pathogen into the body. No vaccine can stop that. How well the person’s body fights the infection is not simply dependent on the available antibodies.
If a person is stress and has a perceived external danger, as for instance in modern life of losing their job or afraid their car is going to break down etc., etc., then their immune system will be declined to some extent depending on the level of fear. If the immune system is declined then not amount of antibodies is going to stop them from getting the disease, i.e., symptoms and being highly infectious to others.
You say no conspiracy. Well please tell me why NO doctor or medical researcher is telling the public about how the immune system can be declined. All the talk is about a strong or weak immune system, which is a long way from the truth.
Even more importantly why are they not telling the public how they can again bring their immune system to full capacity? Why are they all silent on this?
Some definitely are spreaders. The viral counts of some (most?) asymptomatic carriers are as high or even higher than patients with symptoms from what I have personally seen.
That’s better than no immunity, and its a big step above any treatments that have been found thus far.
Then why are cases of whooping cough, measles, mumps, and polio so exceedingly rare when they were very common before the introduction of vaccines for these communicable diseases? Why was there an outbreak of measles that killed 80+ children in Samoa which had a population with low vaccination rates?
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There’s just a lot of unknowns here and I hope that they are doing concomitant animal studies that they skipped over. Do you have any more recent animals studies than these? We don’t know that the vaccine will prevent the ability to spread the virus. Note the one study where the monkey didn’t develop symptoms but still had high levels virus in its nasal passages ( it is hard to know if this is related to excess viral exposure)
The gain of function studies have shown that these SARS vaccines can generate hypersensitivity excaberating the disease pathology and to not be protective in the susceptible populations aged and as others are stating the obese 40% of US. It is even a concern that these T cell immune population could be made hypersensitive by the vaccine. As I have shown that one trial of 15000 vaccinated people with maybe only 5% exposure is not sufficient for establishing safety and efficacy. As much as we want a vaccine it needs extensive testing. Are you aware of additional animal testing for these vaccines particularly for viral challenge in progress while they are running these clinical trials.
The 80+ Samoan children got reported because the low vaccination rate… i.e., propaganda.
Have a look.
Whooping cough
An estimated 16.3 million people worldwide were infected in 2015
https://www.cdc.gov/dotw/whoopingcough/index.html
Since the 1980s, there has been an increase in the number of cases of whooping cough reported in the United States.
“Our other finding is that 10- to 14-year-olds who had been vaccinated were as susceptible to pertussis as kids who had never been vaccinated — suggesting that the vaccine’s effectiveness was not long-lasting,”
And it also says
“In 2012, there were 48,000Trusted Source reported cases of whooping cough in the United States, the highest rate since 1955.” Why is this. They are trying to put it down to non-vaxers but the evidence shows otherwise.”
Measles
https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/measles/globalmeaslesoutbreaks.htm
Measles is an issue worldwide . Provisional data from the World Health Organizationexternal icon (WHO) indicate that during 2019 there were more measles cases reported worldwide than in any year since 2006. More than 500,000 confirmed cases of measles were reported from more than 180 countries, many from large measles outbreaks. Case numbers in 2019 dwarfed the 353,236 confirmed measles cases reported to WHO in 2018. Measles case numbers are underreported so the numbers of confirmed cases may not reflect the full burden of measles cases in a country.
Mumps
There were 5,042 recorded cases of mumps in England in 2019 – four times the number in 2018 and the highest level in a decade.
Polio
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/does-polio-still-exist-is-it-curable
“Polio does still exist, although polio cases have decreased by over 99% since 1988, from an estimated more than 350 000 cases to 22 reported cases in 2017.”
“The onset has been caused by a type 2 virus contained in the vaccine. Type 2 is a wild virus that was eliminated years ago, but in rare cases the live virus in oral polio vaccines can mutate into a form capable of igniting new outbreaks of the disease.”
Let’s look at the example of the Spanish Conquistadors. None of them were sick. They sailed halfway round the world and attacked native people reeking havoc. They had to have antibodies and herd immunity… right! Yet they wiped out entire native peoples by the hundreds of thousands at least.
Here you see smallpox was counted as “help”
" Although Cortés was a skilled leader, he and his force of perhaps a thousand Spaniards and indigenous allies would not have been able to overcome a city of 200,000 without help. He got it in the form of a smallpox epidemic that gradually spread inward from the coast of Mexico and decimated the densely populated city of Tenochtitlan in 1520, reducing its population by 40 percent in a single year.
Why are people not told about immunity, their own immunity. How is it declined and how to arrest the problem? You answer me that.
That’s completely false. They got reported because all cases of measles get reported in the US and its territories. Also, there was an outbreak of measles that saw 5,700 cases in a population of 200,000 people. That’s unheard of in vaccinated populations.
Yes, in populations without vaccination. The same for the other information you link to.
So you admit that the vaccine is effective soon after injection?
Why haven’t you learned how immunity works? I would strongly suggest you learn about the adaptive immune system and why vaccines work.
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I know very well how immunity works. What you don’t seem to appreciate is that being vaccinated and getting the chance to make antibodies is not enough, not by a long, long way. I will explain with an example in my life.
Fifty years ago when I was going to university, I got a golden staph infection in my leg, in a mosquito bite I had scratched. The doctors gave me one antibiotic after another and nothing worked. My leg was getting more and more swollen and red and painful. Then my doctor referred to his colleague in the corridor and I heard the colleague say “if this doesn’t work we might have to take the leg off”. I was shocked. Anyway I went straight home as I was tired and weary and thought one of my flat mates will go and get the antibiotic for me.
I went to bed and slept till the next morning. And when I woke up I found my leg was about 80% better. How on earth could that have happened? Then a year later I was talking to one of the professors in biochemistry where I was working and we talked about fear. He told me that if there is an external danger or the perception of an external danger then the person reacts with fear. Fear aims to give the musculature an advantage for fuel materials over other systems in the body. So digestion, reproduction and immunity are declined. It is supposed to be short term.
It was then that I remembered that there were funding cuts going on at the university and my job was on a grant. I was working and put myself through university.
When I heard the doctors talk about cutting my leg off I suddenly realized the real danger was in my body… the infection. This brought immunity back to working to full capacity. And it did an incredible job. In just two days the problem was gone.
Vaccines only give you the advantage of developing antibodies. THEY DO NOT AFFORD IMMUNITY.
I am not against vaccines though I am against forced vaccination. We have a right to decide what goes into our body. Doctors are trying to sell the idea that the vaccine EQUALS immunity. This is not true. You can have the antibodies and still get sick IF your immune system is declined. And you can get it working to full capacity again by recognizing that the danger is the infection and not whatever we are stressed about in our life. That is not being told to the public and that is vital information.
How does that explain the extreme effectiveness of vaccines? People were afraid of getting all of these diseases in the past, and they still got them. Now they don’t. How do you explain this?
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Vaccines ONLY give us the opportunity to develop antibodies. They do not afford us immunity. It is our immune system that has to be working and making use of the antibodies. You don’t seem to appreciate this.
That doesn’t answer my question. How does that explain the extreme effectiveness of vaccines? Why was smallpox completely eradicated after the introduction of the vaccine? Why did cases of polio, mumps, measles, and pertussis nearly vanish in the US after the introduction of vaccines for those diseases?
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There are no plans to do this and this conspiracy theory in its many ridiculous forms has been fact checked repeatedly and debunked.
These people are discredited scientists and flat out conspiracy peddlers known for spreading false information. Please do not share their propaganda here.
Please do not use this forum to spread misinformation about vaccines. Everyone starts somewhere when it comes to being informed, so we will give you some grace, but you may not use this space as a platform to spread lies.
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Bummer! I got my call the other day. My first appointment is next week.
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They haven’t nearly vanished, they are greatly reduced but why? Is it purely vaccines?. One of the things that is not discussed by the biomedical scientists is that outbreaks commonly occur where there is some external danger or crisis such as wars, famines, oppression etc. This is never mentioned.
Now as for the “extreme effectiveness” of vaccines, maybe you can offer an explanation.