I have no issue handing out without and seeing goodness in anyone. Even if our creator is reflected through many gods just accommodating a wide range of nations, times and people I would still not view it the same as fellowshipping with Christians.
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Russell2, I am a librarian in state government who often works with people at the end of their patience in their search for information, or even the right contact when the automated phone tree dumps them with us. Our staff works very hard for anyone, who calls, and it’s not uncommon to receive a “God bless you” from patrons who are just relieved to finally have a sympathetic human on the line, or to have the information they need. I don’t worry about the god or God they reference. (It’s better than being cursed!) I’ll take the blessing. Your nurse most likely would have, too.
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Could you elaborate?
I suspect you’re mainly interested in the gameplay, rather than in fandom of a particular team or player. A topic for another thread. I have long thought of sports fandom as idolatry, even when I was an agnostic. It rather surprised me to hear both my pastor and N.T. Wrights are fandom-type sports spectators.
God bless you!
Thanks. I should have said it!
Christian faith is quite marginalised here in Australia, compared to the US. But, your point is well received. I should have taken the hijab as an indication that angle would be well received.
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Yes. Some folks here don’t think that Muslims worship the God of Abraham.
I would like to know more about that. Although, “some folks here” say many perplexing things without properly explaining their positions.
I’m more like a phantom-type sports specter. 
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I’m one of some. It was mentioned above with a link to an extended discussion.
I certainly would not say that to one in person, however.
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Syed,. the devout Sunni Muslim guy who sold me fish and chips tonight, said God bless you to me. I was very touched. I should have offered the Salaam. I know the full Arabic version after all. He was impressed by my Shukria.
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Thank you!
I’m pretty sure some of the blessings I’ve received have come from Hindus and Muslims. While I am not a universalist, I appreciate the sentiment very much. Since I’m a government employee, I don’t feel like I have the freedom at work to offer such a blessing, but I can thank people, and reply, “And you.”
It DOES feel awkward, when you’re not in the habit of blessing and receiving blessings in public. But it’s ok to feel awkward.
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Hi Klax!
What is “Shukria?”
Thanks,
KJD.
Bahut achchha! (“Good for you” in Urdu–we picked some Urdu and Arabic, etc, up in the Detroit/Ann Arbor region). Neat how “shukria” and “shukran” are similar for “thank you” in Urdu and Arabic.
Have a blessed Sunday
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So you say now, but we’ll see if you’re still interested tomorrow.
I am one of the “some” who reject the notion that Muslims worship the God of Abraham. I’d like to think I can properly explain my position–but leave the assessment of my position to you. I am, contrary to others’ claims, always open to a reasonable argument against my position; however, I have yet to meet a muslim or non-muslim who can give me one. I’d share my position publicly in this thread or in a private thread thereby avoiding the noise of the uninformed and unreasonable.
The best, brief explanation of the differences between the three religions lumped together and labeled as “Abrahamic”, was an Orthodox (with a capital “O”) rabbi’s who introduced me to a distinction between “God” (i.e. “God character”) and the “concept or idea of God” and answered the question “Do Jews believe that Christians worship the same god as them?” as follows:
- “There is no single, monolithic Jewish opinion. Many Jews are unclear on exactly what the Christian idea of God is and what is worshiped in Christianity. I learned to separate the construct into 2 parts, the character and the idea and in my understanding, Judaism and Christianity share a God character but not a God idea (whereas Judaism and Islam share an idea but not a character).”
- Jews and Muslims have the same concept of God, but they do not worship the same God. Jews and Christians worship the same God character, but do not share the same concept of God.
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Grist for the mill:
- Bassam Saeh, The Miraculous Language of the Qur’an: Evidence of Divine Origin . International Institute of Islamic Thought (IIIT), 2015.
- “This study illustrates why the language of the Qur’an is miraculous, unique, and evidence of divine authority. The author compares the language of the Qur’an with the language of pre-Islamic poetry, the Prophet’s words (hadith), and the language of the Arabs both past and present, to demonstrate that although the Qur’an was revealed in Arabic it was at the same time an Arabic which was entirely new. Original and early Muslim audiences viewed this as miraculous and responded to the Qur’an’s words, sounds, rhythms, etc. in a manner consistent with a deeper appreciation of its beauty and majesty which modern ears, trained by familiarity, and despite being surrounded by all manner of dictionaries and studies, are at a loss to capture.”
- Muḥammad Muṣṭafā al-A’ẓamī. The History of the Qur’ānic Text: From Revelation to Compilation (2nd Edition) a Comparative Study with the Old and New Testaments (Al-Qalam Pub., 2011).
- “The Qur’ān reigns supreme in Muslim hearts as the most sacred of texts: a profusion of exalted ideas to rouse the mind, noble histories to stir the soul, universal truths to awaken the conscience and precise injunctions directing humanity to its own deliverance, all distilled into the melodious essence that is the Word of Allah. Through fourteen centuries Muslims have persevered in championing the text against corruption, memorizing its every word and contemplating its every phrase, so that in our own times untold millions have enthusiastically committed each letter to heart. Beginning with a catalogue of ancient and contemporary attacks on the Qur’ān, this expansive book provides unique insights into the holy text’s immaculate preservation throughout its history, as well as exploring many of the accusations leveled against it. The reception of divine revelations, Prophet Muhammad’s role in teaching and disseminating these verses, the text’s compilation under his guidance and the setting of its final external shape shortly after his death, are meticulously and scientifically examined alongside such topics as the origins of Arabic, its paleography and orthography, the so-called Mushaf of Ibn Mas’ud, and the strict methodology employed in assembling textual fragments.”
- “While the Qur’ān categorically denies the crucifixion [Qur’ān 4:157], it does record the Jewish claim of crucifying Jesus.”
- “(a) The Qur’ān is the very Word of Allāh, his final message to all humanity, revealed to His final messenger Muḥammad and transcending all limitations of time and space. It is preserved in its original tongue without any amendments, additions or deletions.”
- “(b) There will never be a discovery of a Qur’ān, fragmented or whole which differs from the consensus text circulating throughout the world. If it does differ then it cannot be regarded as Qur’ān, because one of the foremost conditions for accepting anything as such is that it conform to the text used in ‘Uthmān’s Muṣḥaf.”
- “(c) Certainly anyone can write on Islam, but only a devout Muslim has the legitimate prerogative to write on Islamic and its related subjects. Some may consider this biased, but then who is not? Non-followers cannot claim neutrality, for their writings swerve depending on whether Islam’s tenets agree or disagree with their personal beliefs, and so any attempts at interpretation from Christians, Jew, atheists, or non-practicing Muslims must be unequivocally discarded. …if any proffered viewpoint clashes with the Prophet’s own guidelines, either explicitly or otherwise, it becomes objectionable; in this light even the writings of a devout Muslim may be rejected if they lack merit.”
- Seyyed Hossein Nasr, Editor-in-Chief. The Study Qur’an (HarperCollins Pub. 2015).
- Sūrah 3:42. “And [remember] when the angels said, ‘O Mary, truly God has chosen thee and purified thee, and has chosen thee above the women of the worlds. 43. O Mary! Be devoutly obedient to thy Lord, prostrate, and bow with those who bow.’ 44. This is from the tidings of the Unseen, which We reveal unto thee. And thou wast not with them when they cast their lots [to choose] who among them would care for Mary, and thou wast not with them when they were disputing. 45. When the angels said,'O Mary, truly God gives thee glad tidings of a Word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, high honored in this world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought nigh. 46. He will speak to people in the cradle and in maturity, and will be among the righteous’ 47. She said, ’My Lord, how shall I have a child while no human being has touched me?’ He said, ‘Thus does God create whatsoever He will.’ When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, ‘Be!’ and it is. 48. And He will teach him the Book, Wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. 49. And [he will be] a messenger to the Children of Israel, ‘Truly I have brought you a sign from your Lord. I will create for you out of clay the shape of a bird. Then I will breathe into it, and it will be a bird by God’s Leave. And I will heal the blind and the leper and give life to the dead by God’s Leave. And I will inform you about what you eat and what you store up in your houses. Truly in that is a sign for you, if you are believers. 50. And [I come] confirming that which was before me, the Torah, and to make lawful unto you part of that which was forbidden unto you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. So reverence God and obey me. 51. Truly God is my Lord and your Lord; so worship Him. This is a straight path.’ 52. And when Jesus sensed disbelief in them, he said, ‘Who are my helpers unto God?’ The apostles said, ‘We are God’s helpers. We believe in God; bear witness that we are submitters. 53. Our Lord, we believe in what Thou hast sent down, and we follow the messenger, so inscribe us among the witnesses.’
- Jesus’ Birth Foretold
- Luke 1:26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, 27 to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And coming in, he said to her, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.” 29 But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was. 30 The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; 33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.” 34 Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?” 35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God. 36 And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month. 37 For nothing will be impossible with God.” 38 And Mary said, “Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.
- Jesus’ Birth in Bethlehem
- Luke 2:4 Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David, 5 in order to register along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child. 6 While they were there, the days were completed for her to give birth. 7 And she gave birth to her firstborn son; and she wrapped Him in cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn. 8 In the same region there were some shepherds staying out in the fields and keeping watch over their flock by night. 9 And an angel of the Lord suddenly stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them; and they were terribly frightened. 10 But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people; 11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 This will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.” 13 And suddenly there appeared with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying, 14 “Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased.” 15 When the angels had gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds began saying to one another, “Let us go straight to Bethlehem then, and see this thing that has happened which the Lord has made known to us.” 16 So they came in a hurry and found their way to Mary and Joseph, and the baby as He lay in the manger. 17 When they had seen this, they made known the statement which had been told them about this Child. 18 And all who heard it wondered at the things which were told them by the shepherds. 19 But Mary treasured all these things, pondering them in her heart. 20 The shepherds went back, glorifying and praising God for all that they had heard and seen, just as had been told them.
- How many angels announced Jesus’ future birth to Mary and told her what he would be called?
- How many angels announced Jesus’ birth to the shepherds?
- If the shepherds told Mary what one or more angels told them, would the shepherds’ telling be “mansplaining”?
- If Abraham never existed, who or what is “the God of Abraham”?
- If Abraham existed, how many “Gods of Abraham” were there? Just one or more than one?
- If there is only one “God of Abraham”, does “He” have a multiple personality? If there are more than one “God of Abraham”, do they communicate with each other to get their story straight or do they ignore each other?
- M.M. al-A’ẓamī wrote: “Islam refers to the Jews and Christians as ‘people of the Book’. These three religions have a common patriarch in Ibrahim, and hypothetically worship the same God that was worshipped by Ibrahim and his sons Isma’il and Ishaq. In discussing these religions we inevitably encounter some common terms, but though the words appear similar to the eyes the underlying implications are not. ” One of the phrases that “appears similar to the eyes”, but is not, is “worship the God of Abraham”.
- Commonly, folks refer to the “Three Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam”, ignoring the fact that there are actually more than three religions which claim Abraham as a patriarch: the “Big three” and the Baha’i, the Druze, the Rastafarians, the Samaritans, the Latter-Day Saints of Jesus Christ, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses, … with apologies to any that I missed.
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A final note: When I choose to express my profound gratitude to anyone, I have, on occasion, said “God bless you” by which I meant: “May my God bless you.” Only the most vehement of unbelievers might object, but I haven’t met one yet.
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I’m not sure if this is a good illustration, but when I was a child, my impression of God was quite a bit different from what it is now. I am sure it was still different from that my parents envisioned as they taught me; and it’s evolved more yet. Given the change, I expect that my view when I die will be a lot different (presuming I have more time left!) than it is now. In Heaven, I suspect that I will have all eternity to slowly get a better impression of Him–not that I’ll ever be perfect in that. Yet, all that time, God has been the same.
However, I think that my parents and I have worshipped the same God all along. So does everyone who worships God, I think. He probably anticipated that, and He probably has a lot more patience with us than we do. I’m glad, because we all have a long way to go.
Thanks.
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Another simile might be if I’m trying to talk to someone in the dark, I don’t need to know most of my conversation partner’s characteristics–whether it’s a male or female, happy or sad, dressed well or poorly. The conversation is the thing. And we learn more as time goes on.
Thanks.
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The Baháʼí are really interesting creatures. If there’s one around this forum, he or she has been pretty skillful in hiding evidence of it. My first lengthy exchange with one was in another forum. there were others there, ready, willing, and eager to win a convert to Baha’ism, or to arm-wrestle me into their fold, but the one I arm-wrestled the most with happened to be an ex-Christian Moderator of the forum. The price for becoming a Baháʼí? not much, just put down Jesus’ cross and live in the freedom of the closest thing to an ecumenical herd of humanity on earth that you can imagine; Oh yeah, that and acknowledge that all of the best in all of the religions were “Manifestations of God”: Zoroaster, Krishna, Gautama Buddha, all the Jewish prophets, Adam, Abraham, Noah, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Báb, and ultimately Baháʼu’lláh**
- In the Baha’i Faith, it is believed that the Manifestations of God are the only channel for humanity to know about God because contact with the Spirit is what transforms the heart and mind, creating a living relationship between the soul and God. They act as perfect mirrors reflecting the attributes of God into the physical world. Bahai’i teachings hold that the motive force in all human development is due to the coming of the Manifestations of God.
- " At the heart of Baháʼí teachings is the goal of a unified world order that ensures the prosperity of all nations, races, creeds, and classes."
- My own personal opinion is that Baha’isim is to current religions the equivalent of those who labored to build the Tower of Babel. I’m not a fan of Baháʼísm but then, … I’m not in charge, here or in the world at large.
Blessings are always preferable to cursings.
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