Thank you, Sy. I had not found any such textbooks either.
I purchased and read Collins’ book shortly after it was published, and underlined many points and turned down many page-corners. Your message prompted me to pull the book off the shelf and open it up once again.
In the second paragraph of his Introduction he states, _"The human genome consists of all the DNA of our species, the hereditary code of life. This newly revealed text was 3 billion letters long, and written in a strange and cryptographic four-letter code. Such is the amazing complexity of the information carried within each cell of the human body, that a live reading of that code at a rate of one letter per second would take thirty-one years, even if reading continued day and night. Printing these letters out in regular font size on normal bond paper and binding them all together would result in a tower the height of the Washington Monument. For the first time on that summer morning this amazing script, carrying within it all of the instructions for building a human being, was available to the world."
We now know that when our cells are made from the atoms in our digestive system, the majority of them have a DNA molecule such as Collins describes. Every persons DNA in unique, although much of the coding is the same.
But the DNA in each cell has to be assembled with the right numbers of the right atoms precisely placed, doesn’t it.
It is now over 10 years later since Collins’ team made this discovery of the “…instructions for building a human being…”, and we still can’t build one significant part of one cell using atoms, let alone building a whole DNA molecule.
Doesn’t this tell us that a super-intelligent, dextrous, reliable, and careful force has to do this physical work of assembling all parts of every cell, as well as adding the “breath-of-life” to the otherwise inanimate atoms? Then, of course, the cells have to be precisely assembled, wired with nerves, and plumbed with blood vessels. We know who the builder, electrician, and plumber is, don’t we.
These are just some of God’s wondrous works.
Our proposed science of atomic biology is established to study and apply this amazing work.
Hopefully, the majority of scientists still want to go where the evidence leads, even if they are under duress to disallow “a divine foot in the door”, as Lewontin said.
Tom
Wondrous works indeed. I do have one more suggestion for you. I have spent well over 40 years studying biology, and then working in biological research, and am very familiar with some of the mechanisms of physiology and genetics. So, my suggestion is to spend very little time on investigating how animal bodies work, in other words, the assembly of tissues from cells, innervation by nerve fibers and the intricate patterns of blood vessels and capillaries. There are some basic mysteries about how all of this can happen, but not very many, and there is a vast amount of knowledge that you might not have access to.
My advice is to focus on the individual cell, like a bacterium, which is far simpler than the kinds of cells in our own bodies, but still contains an amazing degree of extremely complex molecular systems. We do have knowledge of almost all of the mechanisms of how these systems work, but almost no knowledge, or even any good theories for how such “simple” cells came to be. If there is any part of biology that is in need of new ideas, that is it. May the Lord bless you, and bless your work.
Thank you so much for your comments, Sy.
As Meyer said in “Signature in the Cell”, “The simplest extant cell, Mycoplasma Genitalium - a tiny bacterium that inhabits the human urinary tract - requires only 482 proteins to perform its necessary functions and 562,000 bases of DNA (just under 1200 base pairs per gene) …” If the first cell was something like this, it is hardly something that could be formed by chance. Our hypothesis is that a super-intelligent force is required to find, sort, select, and precisely place the right numbers of the right atoms to build even the simplest cell.
Thank you for confirming that this area of biology needs the new ideas.
As we are gathering the names of scientists recommending the thorough investigation of the atomic biology concepts, it would be an honor if you would consider being on the list.
Blessings to you and yours, Sy. Have a great weekend.
Tom Rogers
Hello Thomas,
Where do you get the idea that anyone thinks that the first cell had anything remotely resembling the complexity we observe in modern cells?
Are you laboring under the spectacular misconception that evolution produces a ladder instead of a bush of relatedness?[quote=“GodsBiology, post:43, topic:5251”]
Our hypothesis is that a super-intelligent force is required to find, sort, select, and precisely place the right numbers of the right atoms to build even the simplest cell.
[/quote]
Can you point me to an empirical prediction that your hypothesis makes? Please note that “empirical” in this context means what one will directly observe, not subject to any interpretation.
You need to sign up with these guys, benkirk
Benjamin, as a believer in evolution, how do YOU think the first cell was assembled?
I am giving no credit to macro-evolution for anything because our research shows that super-intelligent physical work is essential to build every living cell and entity.
This is work that macro-evolution is incapable of performing because it has no intelligence to use.
One of the beautiful parts of our proposed Godly science of atomic biology is that it is full of empirical predictions, e.g. if a healthy human sperm and a healthy human egg are united in a healthy mother’s womb, the right numbers of the right atoms will be found in the mother’s digestive system, then sorted, selected, and precisely assembled in proper sequence to make every one of the trillions of new cells for all the various complex tissues, organs, bones, blood cells, brain cells, nerves, etc., etc., etc. to build a baby human. Then the right numbers of the right ingested food atoms in the baby’s digestive system will likewise be found, sorted, selected and precisely assembled into the trillions of new cells necessary to build the baby into an adult. The DNA and RNA for most of the cells will be carefully programmed and the necessary breath-of-life added to these assembled inanimate atoms as no cell lives or functions without it. This work is performed brilliantly by the designer and builder for thousands of new people every day. This empirical prediction applies similarly for the construction of every other creature and plant.
We have the privilege of being able to witness God’s type of evolution by observing a crawling caterpillar building its cocoon, then being completely disassembled down to atomic soup, then having most of these same atoms precisely and carefully reassembled into a beautiful flying butterfly. All this super-intelligent physical work is performed in a matter of about 12 days, not millions of years. Correct?
We already know about babies and how they are made, so that doesn’t count as an empirical prediction.
Fertilization occurs in the fallopian tubes; that’s where egg and sperm are united. The fertilized egg must then travel to the uterus and implant there. Sometimes it will implant right in the fallopian tube, causing a dangerous ectopic pregnancy. Many other things can go wrong as well. As a matter of fact, many spontaneous abortions occur in the early days of pregnancy, sometimes before the woman even knows she’s pregnant.
As for digestion, nutrients aren’t necessarily broken down into atoms before being absorbed. Many are broken down into simpler molecules and then absorbed.
Well, that’s a start.
“Precisely” and “carefully” in the context you’ve presented them are the antithesis of empirical.
How about trying for a real empirical prediction? Just one?
You are missing our point, Beaglelady. You probably learned in about grade five science that material things are made of atoms. This means that our cells, being material things, are made of atoms.
There are 59 or 60 different elements in our bodies, but not in every cell. However, the right numbers of the right elemental atoms have to be precisely, intelligently, and carefully sorted, selected, counted, and assembled for each complex part of each cell.
Absorption is a given. It is this intelligent physical assembly work of each living cell and entity that we, at RealityRandD, are researching.
Our primer is titled, “So, Who IS This GOD of Our Nations, and What Does He DO For Us?” if you are really interested in more details of how we are “fearfully and wonderfully made.”
Benjamin, if you plant a bunch of carrot seeds in some reasonable soil and add a little water, you can make the empirical prediction that you are going to get a bunch of carrots, can’t you. And if you plant cucumber seeds, you can empirically predict that you will get cucumbers, watermelon seeds…watermelons, etc., etc., etc. What better empirical predictions do you need?
They just don’t appear by magic, electromagnetism, or chemical reactions.
They are so super-intelligently built with the right numbers of the right atoms, that our human scientific intelligence can’t come close to building even one significant part of one cell of any of those foods that are brilliantly and reliably built for our nourishment.
Hi Thomas,
Glad that you are growing in faith, and that you appreciate the marvels of the order in the universe that God created for us to thrive in.
That said, I find the “predictions” you have made in this thread and the predictions of mainstream biology to be indistinguishable. So I can’t say that the case you have been making allows me to favor your Intelligent Design model over the mainstream biology model.
Also, there’s a line of reasoning that many folks have been trying to make that you haven’t grasped yet. If you don’t mind analogies, I will try to use them to help you understand it. According to mainstream biology, you can think of the DNA that is in every cell as a kind of “blueprint.” Those blueprints include instructions for generating the machinery that is used to copy the blueprint when the cell duplicates. The blueprints include instructions for generating the machinery that translates blueprints into proteins. And the blueprints include instructions for making proteins.
When our bodies manufacture hemoglobin, then, it’s because our bodies contain billions of tiny little factories that use identical copies of the common blueprint to make a common product (hemoglobin).
Very importantly, all of this activity obeys the laws of physics and chemistry. In a way, this biological process is not different than a middle school science fair project that combines billions of molecules of sodium carbonate with billions of molecules of citric acid (vinegar) to make a “lava flow.” Both the manufacture of hemoglobin and the manufacture of the “lava flow” conform to laws of physics and chemistry.
The fact that all of this activity, whether inside the body or in the middle school laboratory, proceeds according to the laws of physics and chemistry does not mean that God is not involved. Having encountered the resurrected Lord through the Scripture, the Holy Spirit, and the church, I believe that God created the universe to behave in a lawful fashion, and that He continues to uphold the universe through His providential care. However, I cannot “prove” this belief as a rational matter; at the end of the day, it is a statement of faith.
Cheers,
That’s false. We can (and have) synthesized an entire bacterial genome from raw materials. Or at least JC Venter’s team has.
No. The assembly of atoms in living things occurs under exactly the same laws of physics and chemistry that everything else in the universe obeys, and most of the essential steps are well understood. Set up the right chemicals, and the process will occur – membrane formation, DNA copying, transcription of genes. . .
“Set up the right chemicals and …membranes, DNA …” this is an overstatement in spades 
Since lipid bilayer self-assembly, DNA replication and transcription are all easily carried out in the lab, by putting the right chemicals together under the right conditions, I fail to see what I overstated. Could you be more specific?
Vinegar is acetic acid, not citric acid. Good post otherwise.
The implication from your comment is that a type of “self-synthesis”. or perhaps an “inevitable” synthesis of cell-membrane and other bio-aspects would occur by putting “right” chemicals (whatever that may mean) together - such an implication is an exaggeration - I understand that under correct lab conditions, and a judicious selection of (often very complicated compounds) materials, biologically relevant areas can be investigated in laboratories. This speaks to controlled conditions for specific and limited synthetic processes; and synthesis would differ from things such as DNA replication etc., in the laboratory.
Isn’t that how we’re able to amplify DNA via PCR?
I hope you realize that most of our food crops and food animals were produced over many years by intensive artificial selection, greatly enhancing our ability to feed the world. For instance, just compare teosinte with corn!
A strange way to put things.
I said that the essential steps in the chemistry of life are understood and can be replicated in the lab by putting the correct chemicals together (the implication being that moving around specific atoms and adding special vital pixie dust are not needed). Nothing in your response contradicts my statement.