Yes, awesome indeed! I have just one question. If in, say, 200 years there is a plausible naturalistic explanation available for all of the things you cite here (I didn’t say overwhelming, just plausible), then would you feel pressured to withdraw or mute your praise? I want to say there should be no such pressure on Christians, ever, and that God may be praised without reservation even if it should turn out that the story of natural history can be told in a thoroughly naturalistic way. And as Jon Garvey was suggesting above (I think), the rationality of believing the biblical miracles would remain unaffected in such a case.
Hi John:
Our research on the subject of “How does God build things” started as a curiosity in 1987 when this late- blooming believer finally saw the light (that’s me). Some years later I pieced together some fascinating info about our red blood cells. Pallister stated that a 70 kg male has about 2.3 million new rbc’s per second produced for him; then I found Tortora who states that every rbc contains about 280 million molecules of hemoglobin; then I found that Max Perutz claims that each molecule of hemoglobin contains about 10,000 of the right atoms. I verified the numbers with other research and did the math. The number is about 6400 Quadrillion right atoms per second that have to be found in our digestive system, selected and precisely assembled into new rbc’s to replace the worn-out ones. We get a whole new batch within about 120 days. I just cannot imagine this ever being performed by an unguided process. It involves such a huge amount of super-intelligent, reliable, careful physical work. Does this seem like reasonable thought to you?
Yes, it’s reasonable to think these processes are guided, though I must leave it to Dennis and other experts to comment on the specifics you cite here. But if I’m understanding you correctly, you need more than a simple acknowledgement that it is reasonable to think these processes are guided. You need to claim that it is unreasonable to think that future inquiry will ever result in a reasonable and unguided way of understanding them. And that’s the claim that I’m saying can be dangerous, and should be held very loosely. The general lesson is that Christians should not hang their theological hats on claims about the way science will go in the future. Edwards (from Dennis’s post) and the 17th-century anti-Copernicans are classic examples, but ID is in danger of making the same mistake. Belief in God’s creative agency is reasonable, even in the presence of a fully naturalistic explanation for all natural phenomena. We don’t need to think that science must develop in a certain way.
“We don’t need to think that science must develop in a certain way” – J.T. Mullen
I totally agree with this statement, John. It relates to the statement that “Science must go where the evidence leads”. Then having done that, choose the Best Explanation based upon today’s evidence.
We believe Atomic Biology may provide the Best Explanation. You could say we are prejudiced but that in itself does not make the belief wrong.
We are gathering friendships and scholarly support for the fair investigation of this proposed new branch of Godly science.
Open minded scientists are certainly welcome.
Well, Beaglelady. I am certainly not God, but I know that our governments make rules that come with penalties, and that God does also. Even when we do not always understand the reason for our difficulties, we can rely on His Word that He can use all circumstances for a good purpose for those that love Him. My experience is that I advanced most, personally, through great difficulties.
If you have a disorder, I have just said a little prayer for God to reveal His good purpose to you, if you do love Him. We know that even the great Apostle Paul had a “thorn in his side” that God left there for a purpose. Yours may be a penalty or it may be a teaching tool.
Part of my problems were brought on by my pride.
Your comment about having no reason to be penalized for anything is a bit of a red flag, wouldn’t you say? (“For all of us have sinned and fall short…”). Just saying…
I don’t know, Beaglelady. You would know far better than I.
Every good parent disciplines their children, but as I mentioned, this may just be a teaching tool. My final suggestion is to wait and watch closely for the good purpose. It always shows up eventually for me. Maybe He just wants more of your attention. He doesn’t mind questions but He dislikes being ignored, especially when He works so hard for us. This is a facet of our Atomic Biology project.
Perhaps He just wanted us to have this discussion to help bring us closer to Him.
Nice corresponding with you.
Tom
I share your wonder at the way biological systems work. And I agree that just as the “Heavens proclaim the glory of God” so do all living cells. But we need to be careful about ascribing specific aspects of biological function to God guided processes. I dont know if you are saying that all biological processes are too complex and too amazing to be explained by natural processes, but if you are, then as John Mullen said, it would be a mistake. We know an awful lot of the detailed mechanisms by which biology works. That includes your example of red blood cell genesis and hemoglobin synthesis, and pretty much all of physiology. I suggest that it would be very beneficial for your project to pick up a basic molecular biology textbook and study it. You will be inspired and refreshed in your faith in the wonders of God’s works, but you will also be able to avoid trying to fill gaps of our real knowledge that are actually not there. Such study should point you in the right direction to apply your ideas of God’s design in the right place. Peace.
Sy, I would be happy to read a molecular biology textbook that gives God credit for the wonders of His works. Could you recommend one or two for me?
Thanks.
Tom
Yes, we are definitely wonderfully made of chemical elements. However it takes a lot more than just chemical reactions to build cells and assemble them into living entities, doesn’t it.
With all our accumulated scientific intelligence, knowledge and special equipment, we cannot build even one significant part of a cell from scratch. That is why we should not expect an unintelligent process to be capable of building whole living entities.
Atoms have no internal means to move themselves into their precise position in a cell, therefore they require an intelligent external force to precisely select and place them.
English speaking people and governments call this force “God”, as “In God We Trust.”
I dont know of any basic biology texts that include any mention of God. But I do recommend Francis Collins The Language of God, which included a good deal of information about how DNA works. It is a very important book for Christians and those who want to incorporate science into their faith based world view. Its written by one of the most outstanding scientists in the world. (and btw, the founder of this organization and web site)