No, you did not.
@SkovandOfMitaze mentioned the existence of cessationists, people who believe certain charismatic gifts were imparted by the apostles or were given only for the time of the early church and that those gifts have ceased and are not given by the Spirit today. This is a real group that includes many Evangelicals. I am not interested in explaining or defending why they think certain gifts are not given today, despite plenty of experiential evidence to the contrary. I am not a cessationist, but I know what the word means and I know people who are cessationists. You were mistaken to imply that no people are cessationists and that @SkovandOfMitaze was using the word in some atypical way. That is all I have to say on the matter.
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For the record,
- I never said or implied that “no people are cessationists.” What I said was: "So, until somebody proves the popuation of people who believe what @SkovandOfMitaze said is more than zero, I say “It’s zero”.
- I never said SkovOfMitaze was using the word “cessationism” in some atypical way. What I said was that: Skov’s statement that “the Bible teaches that the spiritual powers given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands have ceased” is false. The Bible teaches no such thing.
- That is all I have to say on the matter.
Most dispensalist Baptists, confessional reformed and prebysterian, and parts of Anglican communium are cessationists. This is a simple google search and I have been to churches of these denominations and a non-zero amount of them follow cessationist teachings. You can find their denominational teachings (or for more autonomous groupings, dig a little deeper). This has been clearly understood for over 50 years. The onus is on you to provide the idea that that population is zero.
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Is there a reason why you don’t know what I have said elsewhere in this thread? Here’s the latest version, … again. Please do not stop reading mid-sentence.
If you are so familiar with cessationist doctrine, then it shouldn’t take more than a minute or two to tell me which Bible verse teaches cessationism or says that “the spiritual powers imparted by the laying on of the apostle’s hands have ceased”. Refresh my memory please.
By the way, I believe that Judaism teaches that Malachi was the last of the prophets and that there have never been Christian prophets. So, “biblical cessationism” is either an ambiguous term or a non-Jewish, as well as a Protestant and/or non-Charismatic Christian doctrine.
Well you obviously did say it and numerous others read that as well.
But how about you start your own thread on this subject since it’s a tangent you are stuck on that goes beyond the actual question of my post. Stop being so petty that you think a doctrine , it’s not merely a verse , it’s a doctrine centered on several verses. There has already been two links shared. You should be mature enough by now to know how to start your own thread and should be able to do it without be petty and immature. You should also know that a doctrine is not merely isolating a few verses and saying “ see “ bit requires numerous verses and background info. You keep acting as if I can’t vs I’m not wasting the time right now to do it. I’ll make a entire thread, again, dedicated to it sometime if you don’t want to do it yourself and I’ll prob do my own even if you do it just so it’s set up better.
So if you reread my actual question, you’ll see what is the actual point of my question. The actual point of my question is not about peoples
make belief magical powers but about maintaining the faith of those in EC who slowly begins to naturalize everything into the entire story just being one big metaphor. Also Jesus was a prophet…
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I wouldn’t continue posting my objection if people didn’t continue objecting to my initial question and objection.
Initially I asked you what you believe “biblical cessationism” is and we eventually reached an impasse: We both agree that we have an irreconcilable difference between us, and what makes it a funny irreconcilable difference is that I say the irreconcilable difference is “X” and you say: the irreconcilable difference is “Y,” you still haven’t figured it out.
Then one person jumped in twice and two other people followed, once each, and you seem to think think I should just roll over and play dead. That’s really charitable of you: thanks but no thanks. However, I agree, the silliness has gone on far too long. I’d start a new thread, but I’ll betcha’ the moderators would shut it down because it would reveal how silly other forum members (including you) have been. So, how about this: I’ll go back and flag every post that you, your three companions, and I have posted and ask that they be removed… and then YOU can start a new thread all about cessationism and I’ll flag it too. Or I can start a thread and see if I can get it by the watchful eyes of all the Moderators.
Edited
I don’t think you should roll over and play dead. I stated the reasons why I see people increasingly going into atheism after years of EC jump starting a paradigm shift about their faith.
The point of the post is not cessstionism. I stated multiple times the point is not cessationism. Yet we are till one the subject. You worded whatever you meant to say wrong which is why four people continued about it thst read through the post. You did state I was using the word wrong and must not understand it. First it was about the word biblical. Then you dropped that and moved to cessationism in general as something no one believes as I worded it. Then you jumped to something rhst maybe is people believe it, and maybe I did use the word correctly but you s to do want to debate it and I said from the start I am not on this thread because it is going to take several hours of me responding to several people. So start another thread. Can’t you just start another thread about your question or just drop it and when I do the post
On cessationism I’ll tag you. Then we can debste that one subject there.
You may now continue your thread derailment in private. Carry on.
[edit – sorry, some of the posts are out of order but I don’t think it will matter much in the long run.]
You can disagree all you want as to whether cessationism is true or otherwise, but @SkovandOfMitaze use of the term is still conventional usage.
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Neat! So maybe, while you’re in the neighborhood, you can point me to someone, besides you and SkovandOfMitaze, who says that cessationism means:
Or am I just supposed to take your word for it?
This is not even a remotely misunderstood aspect
If the subject……
With just a simple google search this up.
You are right I am confused. I am very confused on how this went so far over your head… so what are you confused about? The r term
Biblical before cessationism? That cessationism is connected to the completion of scripture? Despite the annoyance of something so easily understandable from a single google search or the bafflement or something that’s been talked about all over the place I’ll try to respond once or maybe twice.
You really needn’t bother to do so but, knowing you, I won’t be surprised if you do anyway. Why do I say you needn’t bother? Because
- You and others describe Cessationism very poorly, and
- You think the irreconcilable difference between you and me is that you say “the extraordinary methods such as prophecy and tongues … and extraordinary signs such as miracles to confirm those whom we should receive (prophets and Apostles) as His inspired” messengers" have ceased and that I say they have not.
- But I say that’s only one irreconcilable difference between us; the other, more important irreconcilable difference is [now pay attention, because this is the last time I’m ever going to try to say this]
- the Bible does not teach that the extraordinary methods and signs have ceased.
-
- You believe the methods and signs have ceased, and I don’t, AND
- You say the Bible teaches that they have ceased and I say that’s false, the Bible does not teach that.
- Now, before you holler again and say that it does, take a moment and carefully think about this:
- If the Bible teaches Cessationism, why would the Catholic Church and “tons and tons and tons” of Catholic and non-Catholic Charismatics believe that the methods and signs have not ceased?
- You’re saying stuff that’s as silly as the stuff that YEC-cers say, and you’re not making sense.
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Terry,
I read your conversations. You are incredibly aggressive and rude and despite the onus being on you to demonstrate the zero population who believe according to SkovandofMitaze, you are clearly not interested in doing much work.
As for the question on proving cessationist doctrine, why are you asserting that I prove something that I never claimed is true.
You are arguing like someone on Reddit in the comment section. No is suggesting that you roll over and play dead, but pulling the victim card now? I mean we are entirely uncharitable and there is no evidence continuing or escalating from your posts.
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It is clear that you do not understand my position, which is disconcerting because your comments and opinion regarding my “behavior” assure me that you have NO interest in understanding my position.
That’s prima facie evidence that you do not understand my position.
My position is NOT that cessationist doctrine requires proving.
My position is that the claim that “the Bible teaches that cessationism is true” requires proving and until it is proven, it is itself false. The Bible does not teach cessationism.
What amazes me is that no one, so far, has understood the distinction between a challenge to Cessationism and a challenge to the claim that the Bible teaches cessationism.
And you are arguing like a proponent of YEC.
I really don’t care whether you are a cessationist or not.
What I object to is the claim that “the Bible teaches cessationism.”
That is what SkovandOf Mitaze said and That is what others are defending: i.e. his “right” and justification for that claim.
Claiming that the Bible teaches cessationism is tantamount to calling anyone and everyone who is not a cessationist a heretic.
Don’t bother responding. I’m adding you to my “Ignore” list.
No Terry,
I do understand your position. When I said proving cessationist doctrine, that implied using the bible (as in does the Bible teach it). You simply asserting that these are not present is false.
Your behaviour is not in quotations as if it was not plain for all to see. I do have an interest but you keep straw manning us and not getting the implications behind our arguments. That is not what the others are defending.
Of course I’m going to make a post on it. Has nothing to do with you though. It’s not hard to demonstrate from scripture why it teaches cessationism. It’s just time consuming to go through it in text. You don’t have to read it or respond to it though once I do make it. But knowing you I’m sure I’ll get a bullet point list and quotes ehh. Which I’m fine with. I mostly enjoy reading your musings. If I had 50 hours a day I would respond to them everytime. I read them often and have a notebook with a few dates and threads in it where you tagged me and I just never had time to respond in depth. I work 60+ hours a week, hike 20+ hours a week, go to the gym, and ride my bike and the majority of the remaining time is spent watching horror movies with my cats. So it often takes a few weeks for a serious response unless I won’t to sacrifice watching a show. But the next two posts I hope to make will be about cessationism which I explained just fine for the purpose of the post and the other will be about conditional immortality and specifically the destruction of the body and soul in hell as described by annihilationism. All on their own posts though.
Sure. But let’s face it if you already know you are right and I do to it won’t change anything in our own opinion. But if in the off chance you change your mind I won’t need any money lol. But if you can counter it in a way that makes me second guess I’ll definitely admit I’m wrong gladly.
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