More than lightning, bro. The facts about your opinion haven’t changed.
I was reading about the cases linked to Lollapalooza here in Chicago last night.
There were 385,000 people there, and from the pictures I saw, people were right on top of each other and hardly anyone was wearing a mask.
There have been 203 cases linked to the event, which is a pretty low percentage.
They required proof of vaccine or a negative COVID test for entry and 90% of the guests were vaccinated.
So I think at this point, the best thing we can do is keep encouraging people to get vaccinated. Vaccinated people are only a small percent of the people contributing to these new explosions of cases and community transmission.
Counterfeit vaccine cards and passports are going to increasingly become an issue.
Also just to be clear with my post my point was not to undermine vaccines or saying that vaccinated people are the main reason why covid is spreading. I obviously support getting the vaccine and think it’s best.
I was just trying to bring up two issues.
Should those of us vaccinated still wear masks in public gatherings. ( I personally am ).
Secondly how amusing it is that the people who are blaming the vaccinated are essentially saying because the vaccinated are not wearing masks they are spreading the virus which means by default they are saying masks help prevent the vaccine yet if you asked them that directly those same people
Most likely have been the ones “ mocking “ maskers.
I think it is actually about 95%, but 99% effective against severe disease.
That might depend on what’s meant by ‘exposed’ here. mRNA vaccines are reportedly somewhere between 40% and 80% effective at preventing infection with the delta variant; that is, that’s how much they reduce your chance of being infected compared to someone who isn’t vaccinated. (Which is a wide spread – the data is still pretty crappy.) What your absolute risk is of being infected when exposed depends on just how exposed you were, and I don’t think is well known.
(Note that the vaccine effectiveness probably depends on which vaccine you got, on how long ago you got it, and on other things like your age.)
Yes, I’m probably misstating the stat I read. ETA: I looked up what I was trying to remember reading. It was that fewer than 1 percent of vaccinated people had reported breakthrough infections.
This article from a statistician said that reporting on the percent of current cases that are breakthrough cases is confusing people about vaccine effectiveness and instead we should be asking what percent of the vaccinated population is getting infected. It’s very low.
[Piggybacking off your question…]
Short answer: yes, at least if there is substantial transmission in your area. Epidemics depend on the collective behavior of the entire population. Behaviors that contribute to transmission permit an epidemic to intensify, meaning more suffering and death, while behaviors that reduce transmission collectively control epidemics. Vaccination reduces transmission. Masking reduces transmission. Avoiding crowded places reduces transmission. Doing more than one thing reduces transmission more than doing just one.
The way I figure it, anything I can do to prevent sickness and death in others (not to mention myself) is a good thing. No doubt some of the people who will be spared suffering are annoying, some of them are morons, some are downright evil, some are misinformed, and some are vulnerable innocents who are doing their best to protect themselves. I don’t see how any of that matters to how I should behave. "Use every man after his desert, and who shall 'scape whipping? "
Thanks for the added article!
Yeah, it may be overkill but I’m going to be wearing a respirator to be safe. My college does not give the opportunity to remotely learn and it is known for high transmission.
I’ve been vaccinated, but I’m not running a chance due to family members with compromised immune systems and too young for the shot. I know I’m possibly going to be ridiculed, but so be it… have to protect the ones I love and others.
Good points. I think my region is composed primarily of the misinformed, but I understand there is a high demand for moron t-shirts so I could be wrong. As you say, that should not change our own behavior.
Just dive into your role as a potentially acute spreader lol. Not as infamous as a super spreader but we all have our niches xd.
That reminds me…
My older son bought a t-shirt in Estes Park one summer that said, “I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.” The clerk asked him what it meant. If I had been in the store with him and had been drinking anything, it would have been sprayed all over. I don’t remember how he said he responded. I hope he deflected graciously with something like, “If it doesn’t make sense, don’t worry about it” or “Yeah, it’s a puzzle, isn’t it.”
Interesting thread. I’m in Australia, in the state of Victoria. Masks are the law here. Potentially a fine of many thousands of dollars. Initially, it was just a request. Compliance was around 10%. As soon as it was announced it would be the law, compliance jumped to 90% within days. I think it was not so much that people seriously feared the fine, so much as, people didn’t take the need seriously until it actually became law.
We also had lots of trouble with people breaking quarantine and lockdown rules and so on, and again, that didn’t turn around until we actually had police and the Army (!) going door to door, checking on compliance.
That was during our second wave. Both the outbreak and the successful crackdown made us a laughing stock in other states. The state Premier (=governor) became known as Dictator Dan. But now, around a year later, our neighbours in New South Wales are treading the same path. Still afraid to properly lock down for fear of egg on their face. A half-a**ed lockdown that has all the inconvenience but none of the benefits of a real one. Weeks into it, cases continue to rise.
Nobody wants to be like China.
And yet …
Yes, vaccinated people who don’t wear masks are contributing to the spread.
And to a lesser extent, vaccinated people who do wear masks are contributing to the spread. There is still a risk of spread with a mask.
A person who wants to do everything he can do to avoid spreading the disease must isolate. But even that, unless he is a doomsday prepper who decides to dip into long-term food supplies, is still a risk if he has things delivered (causing others to be out and about at risk).
The idea of “anything I can do to keep others from sickness or death” sounds noble, but it is not really thought through. If we applied that idea consistent, we would never do any discretionary travel — as our presence on the roads puts others at risk of a car accident.
So people have to make choices. How much of the things I like should I forfeit in the interest of my safety and the safety of others? Each person must make that choice for himself.
Sure there is a endless depth of what you can do to be overly cautious to a unsustainable point. But that’s a red herring to my question which is about should vaccinated people still wear a mask and if not why? What’s the argument different now than non maskers at the beginning giving the rise of the delta strain.
The overly cautious aspect though is pointless. It’s like saying do you care about starving kids in the world and if so then why do you not live in a tent and only eat beans and rice and instead of getting Netflix send that extra couple of bucks to a nonprofit and so on. It’s a useless argument that I only see used to invade the actual specific questions.
Yes, some Christians take a vow of poverty so they have more to help others. They choose. And I laud their choice.
I am sorry, Mi Krumm, that you did not understand my post.
Let me be more specific:
Any person, vaccinated or not, should wear a mask anytime and anywhere that the person decides the wearing lowers the risk of disease to himself and others to an extent that the lowered risk is worth the inconvenience and discomfort and other negatives associated with mask wearing.
Likewise, any person, vaccinated or not, should stay home and not live life to the fullest when the person views the lowered risk of staying home outweighs the loss of pleasure for that person and others that comes with travel. Of course, the financial cost of such excursions comes into play.
It is not possible to make a one-size-fits-all rule, as people differ in so many ways.
I hope this clarifies.
As for me, I wear a mask where law or stores require it. I don’t wear it other places.
By the way, I don’t agree with your statement that the concepts I raised in the post constituted a red herring.
I agree with you, @SkovandOfMitaze . I think this was helpful for me as an illustration, too.
Covid-19: Vaccines alone will not stop Covid spreading - here’s why - BBC News
Thanks for the update fromDown Under, Russell.
How do you feel about the police and Army going door-to-door checking compliance? I don’t think that would play well in my state.
In fact, I think that the US Army is forbidden to do law enforcement, although the National Guard can.