… a 1689 LBCF church? And if so, what do your elders say about your believing in theistic evolution? I’m planning to discuss this further with my elders and wondering what to expect.
Thanks in advance.
I don’t know what that is. Please explain.
I had to google, as a Baptist had never heard of them. https://www.arbca.com/1689-confession
A little more info on reformed Baptists in general: Reformed Baptists - Wikipedia
And I had thought a reformed Baptist was one who had stopped drinking. Learn something new.
I suspect they are less likely to accept evolution, as they tend more conservative, but note their website and doctrinal statement does not mention it.
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Same problem here as anything else written before Charles Darwin’s “On the Origin of the Species” in 1859.
I would consider myself confessional reformed-ish. Though I am not familiar with LBCF, I suspect that if it is modelled on Westminster then it leaves very little leeway for anything other than YEC. So the question is more likely to be how comfortable are your Elders with folks having exceptions to various points or clauses in the confession.
John Frame has been known to say that if a person agrees with everything in their church’s confessional statement then they haven’t read it properly.
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I almost went through that confessional to state my own agreements and disagreement. But I changed my mind halfway. At least I can say that this confessional was at least admirably complex and subtle rather than overly simplistic, making criticism an onerous task. I was particularly appreciative of their stand on the Trinity. I don’t agree on the perseverance of the saints, of course – I think that is entitlement and anti-faith. But that alone wasn’t worth posting. But as you observe, if I kept reading then I would likely find more to object to.
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(Sorry, I didn’t mean to hijack your thread.)
C.H. Spurgeon was good with it apparently, and I think a lot of Spurgeon, for what that’s worth. He was okay with an old earth (I don’t think he understood how old), but he had some issues with evolution. I like to think he would listen to reason if he was gently introduced to what we know today – he certainly understood about God’s providence.
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I’m not, but I’ve spent my life in independent Baptist churches. Recently left for a local PCA. There are a few Reformed Baptist churches pretty far from me, far enough to make it hard to be an active participant. I am very interested in learning more, though about churches that use the LBCF.
Phil, I’m holding my tongue here. Thinking about Romans 14
3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.
Amen, brother.
Words to live by.
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I was converted and reared in an LBCF tradition. They are mostly YEC (the confession states of creation “in the space of six days”), with some OECs. TE is definitely considered out of bounds, formally, though LBCF folk often focus on other things (Calvinism, covenant theology, Sabbath keeping). Therefore, it often comes down to the particular church/elders being OK with an individual being a bit out of bounds on this issue (as someone else mentioned). If you’re willing to not stir the pot among the brethren, and if you at least hold to an historical Adam, my experience is that you might find a context where they’ll be OK. But it really depends on the specific individuals involved.
I applaud you for having an open discussion with them, come what may.
And @jpm, Reformed Baptists love to drink!
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Good luck. My experience with people with 1689 in their profile on Twitter is that they are pretty quick to declare people they disagree with the enemy.
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Oh my. Well, I guess I don’t need to worry about west side churches being too far away.
Thanks for the reply. Can I ask why you ended up leaving your 1689 church and also what type of church are you a member of now?
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Sadly this is all to true, especially the last few years. Thankfully, as with most things/groups, Twitter does not represent reality in terms of most ordinary RBs. Though, having been out a bit, it may be more polarizing than I was familiar with.
I started questioning some particulars of baptistic covenant theology while in seminary (Southern Seminary) in the 90s, though still stayed close with RBs off and on. I stayed mainly with SBC, and sometimes PCA, through 2016. Currently I’m a member of a non-denom church–still fairly conservative but not highly theologically aware of most things. (I’d go to an Anglican church if I had an option.)
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Oh boy, this is new! Actually encountering someone in the same denomination as me!
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What’s your experience? Hmmm. I may have questions.
Quite variable, though I’ve only been in 4 (visited a couple other while traveling), and only two of those are ones that I can remember well enough to comment. @paleomalacologist, having been around a bit longer, could probably tell you more.
Members are merely required to be believers, leadership is required to agree with the Westminster Confession and the Longer and Shorter catechisms.
If it’s in a college town (Ithaca or Chapel Hill, in our case), the church body is likely to be pretty open to differing views on non-essentials. In a more rural-ish area, or a congregation with fewer academics, the body may have more distinct views on secondary issues.
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For real. Living in rural Michigan the last 22 years has been an unexpected, unwelcome cultural shock. I grew up in and have remained in theologically-conservative, calvinistic, independent Baptist churches. The church here felt really familiar. Until it didn’t.
The PCA church is 10 miles in the opposite direction, right near one of our 3 largest state universities. I heard from a person who had made the same move a few years ago that there are even some “liberals” at this PCA. I was thinking, “Oh, liberal like me?” which would be politically moderate, theologically conservative, and socially all-over-the-place. I’m really hoping to find a home there. Only about 40 years late on learning the catechism. But I think they’re probably pretty patient.
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If you lived near me, it would have a large proportion former Baptists.
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