Another Thread on Miracles (Lee Strobel book)

No, I can’t explain the difference. I am sure that many people have theories on the topic, while I find the working of the Holy Spirit powerful and mysterious and doubt humans can fully understand it.

As for the passages in 1 and 2 Timothy, what contradiction did you think that you saw? I see none, and I note these are specific exhortations to Timothy rather than general rules about how things occur.

There are still unbelievers that need proof, especially in areas where the gospel is news and Christians are rare. I have seen many reports of miracles from such places, many from the Jesus Film Project.

Thanks for engaging.

Thank you for your post on dreams.

God still does speak to people in dreams, but few dreams are from God. Just because a person “wants” a dream to be from God does not make it a dream from God. And the fact that some people attribute dreams incorrectly to God does not mean God never speaks to people in dreams.

My wife has had two prophetic dreams. They came to her for protection. In both dreams, she was in an area she did not recognize at the time and was brutally attacked. Later she found herself in those place, places she had never been before, and remembered the dreams and took different actions.

I was with her once when she arrived in the location and immediately recalled the horror of the dream when she recognized the place from her dream. She had never even been in that state before. This was on the campus of Auburn University in 1981. As soon as we drove on the campus she recognized it from the dream. As a result, she did not take the baby and walk back from the football game to the hotel the following weekend. That walk back had been when she was attacked in the dream. The miracle was that she clearly saw the distinctive attributes of Auburn University in a dream without ever being there before and dreaming a football game and specific events.

I have another story about a dream from 1980. My wife went to nursing school with a woman we knew in high school. Some time after graduation, my wife and I headed to my Army training in Arizona. We heard that the woman’s husband had abandoned her pregnant and with two small children already. She was in financial difficulty, to say the least. She went to live with her mother. She did not know us that well, and she had no idea that we were in Arizona.

We felt we should send her some money, and we mailed her $350. That was a more substantial sum back in 1980. While the check was in the mail, she had a dream that she received a letter with money in it from Arizona. She told her mother about it and said “and I don’t know anybody in Arizona.” Then the letter came.

She had pride and did not want to cash the check. Her wise mother told her, “God sent you money and sent you dream to tell you to take it. How can you turn that down?”

But God doesn’t heal everyone. Jesus probably had to step over many sick people to get to the one He healed at the pool near the temple. And God doesn’t send everyone dreams. But those of us willing to see that He still works miracles do see miracles.

I have another story about the prophetic utterance my wife spoke at a critical time, but this post is long enough for now.

I don’t see a contradiction between the two letters. I obviously answered it in the previous post I already sent.

Does not require crazy theories to answer the differences. The gospels and epistles lay it out.

My point was this. You seem to think it’s super clear cut and that I don’t know what I’m talking about. I do. Its clear you should really research all those questions and study the subject out and then maybe discuss it. There are writings outside of the gospel for 2,000 years in this. Early Church fathers have even wrote all about it.

One clue is the fact Jesus states not everyone who says lord lord will be saved and on that day they will say but we did this and that in your name ( miracles) and yet he never knew them. The power of the Holy Spirit is not related to salvation at all. Just the indwelling. I’m not going to be responding after this until I’m able to do the separate posts on subjects that are necessary to understand laying on of hands.

Hebrews 6:1-3
New American Standard Bible

6 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do, if God permits.

Washings and laying on of hands is a foundational teaching. So many don’t understand it nowadays and that’s why their theology is not truly systematic. They jump into solid food when they still don’t even know how to drink the milk.

Actually, I have been studying it for many decades.

I look forward to your posting the scriptures that you think say that miracles have ceased.

And I will be interested in your opinion of when miracles ceased. Some cessationists choose the death of the last of the original apostles of Jesus, others choose the finalization of the canon, there may be other positions.

What about miracles of providence? You’ve heard me enough times about Maggie :grin:, and Rich Stearns.

I don’t actually know their stories. If someone thinks they have the signs of the apostles as shown by the power of Holy Spirit. So no speaking in tongues, no healing the sick , not resurrection, no prophecies, no casting out demons, no picking up venomous snakes or drinking poison and so no laying on kfnjands.

The stories are posted here at Biologos at those links (they’re short :slightly_smiling_face:). They both contain miracles of God’s providence, but they are not of the sort you specifically disallow. I will not exclude God’s working in other ways, though. I should reread Metaxas’ book. (I don’t remember if speaking in tongues was in it – I’m sure there was a vision and a healing in it.) I agree about prophecies, snakes and poison.

It is quite remarkable that humans have invented language to transfer information from one brain to another using words. Your use of ‘representative’ instead of ‘image’ illustrates the difficulty two individuals may have in expressing emotion-arousing ideas to each other. The N.T. appears to quote Jesus as claiming both (1) “the Father and I are One”; and (2) “the Father is greater than I”. You are much more aware than I of the amount of exegetical effort has been expended to reconcile these two views. I have given up on any attempt to reconcile them intellectually , and remain content to rely on my life’s experience that God is a God of Love, whatever form He takes.

Hope you and your family stays well.
Al Leo

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