So you don’t really take the Bible literally. So you can’t expect us to do so.
And you should stop distorting the beliefs of Theistic Evolutionists. Isn’t that dishonest? Think of how you would feel if somebody kept saying that Adventists worship Ellen White.
@adamjedgar this conversation is not going to be very productive because:
Adam, there is something very important that you need to realise here.
If you are going to address what people believe, you must address what they believe in reality, and not your incorrect misconceptions and misrepresentations of what they believe. Others have told you repeatedly that proponents of evolutionary creation, or theistic evolution, or whatever you want to call it, do not believe what you claim that we believe about death, sin and the Fall. This is something that I see coming from science deniers in YEC and ID circles a lot, and it is uncharitable, divisive, and dishonest.
@Christy has pointed out that she, and many of the rest of us, do not find the scientific claims of the young earth organisations to be credible. There is a specific reason for this: science has rules, and young earth “creation science” flouts the rules in ways that would kill people if they did the same in any normal science-based workplace. I can go over this in detail with you if you like.
If death before the fall is evil, why is the Psalmist praising God for providing food for lions at any time? It is not always evil?
Psalm 104 is a creation Psalm (or the Creation Psalm).
The original unfallen creation was merely “very good”, not perfect (there is a word for perfect in Hebrew, and God did not use it):
God’s purpose was and still is to magnify the most valuable thing there is, namely himself (he would be lying if he said otherwise), and to increase and share his joy. He is happy in himself.*
Father’s intended purpose in creating the world was to was not to create a perfect one. His purpose was not thwarted. It was a two creations model** from the get-go, and the first one was subjected to futility on purpose, from its very start.
The original unfallen creation was merely “very good”, not perfect, since it did not and could not magnify God’s justice, mercy, grace and love through our Lord, Jesus, the Christ. Jesus’ motivation is also explicit and clear, and it was forward looking***: “for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame.” Hebrews 12:2. That joy is us(!), if you nave been adopted into his family.
The New Earth will be perfect.
*See The Pleasures of God by John Piper
**”Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” Matthew 25:34
***Our motivation should be forward looking, too, toward future grace. See Future Grace, also by John Piper
You repestedly assert without argument. The OT was written in Hebrew not English. The text can, and has been for over 2000 years, been read in other than a literall way. Disagree with this witness if you want, but don’t deny its existence or possibility.
Feel free to actually argue your case, rather than–once again–assert without evidence…and often contrary to evidence. I’m a teacher of biblical languages and a well-versed scholar who’s published in this area. I find your rantings ill-grounded and uncharitable. If you think the Bible teaches YEC, believe it while admitting the cognitive dissonance it entails. Choose better YEC representatives than ones that provoke you to dismiss the faith and salvation of fellow believers (there are some good ones to follow).
Excellent article, Bill. It is gentle in tone, yet provides good ideas for engagement. I have several Adventist friends but never considered how Ellen White’s ideas still are strongly held.
Hi. Do you have an idea of what evening and morning means? If the days are millions of years, why would the author use evening and morning to describe them?
Greetings! Yes, I think there is a definite, culture specific reason, but it’s been a few months since I saw it. I’ll dig some for you. It may be in one of Walton’s books, but I don’t recall. @DOL Dr Lamoureux has a degree in both theology and evolutionary science. Dr Lamoureux, can you clarify? Thanks!
He’s long gone from BioLogos. I have his contact information, but don’t want him subjected to any hostility. So here’s a youtube lecture he gave that might provide answers:
Hi Rohan,
Nothing special or unique about these nouns.
Very common in the Old Testament.
עֶרֶב (ereb) 134 X
NASB: evening (114) , evening* (1), evenings (2), every evening (1), night (2), sunset (1), twilight (11)
בֹּקֶר (boqer) 214 X
NASB: dawn (1), dawn* (2), day (1), daybreak (1), every morning (5), morning (195) , mornings (2), soon (1), tomorrow morning (1)
Hope this helps.
Blessings,
Denis
BTW, I’m actually working on a translation of Genesis 1 right now.
A translation, don’t you mean a paraphrase?
The Bible cannon was complete many centuries ago.the translation into english, also centuries ago…it does not need a re-translation.
What that is now is a paraphrase… placing ones own interpretation in print.
I have seen posts in this forum claiming any denomination writing their own Bible are heretical cults. .and yet here we are reading that a theistic evolutionist is doing exactly that!
I will stick with the TR and Critical texts dating back many centuries thanks…I know and trust these codeces have not been completely corrupted by denominational and non Christian evolutionary biases.
People should be very alarmed by the quoted post above.
Will it be published?
Translations are constantly being done as we better understand the ancient languages. Languages change, so updates to reflect that also are done. Sometimes new texts show up which alter our understanding of what texts are most true to the original. The table in this article is pretty interesting:
So now one is translating a book, which has already been translated.
What LANGUAGE is one translating it into exactly?
No what is being done here is writing a “paraphrase”
That is not a translation, it is an interpretation!
That is not and never will be, an authoritative source of scripture.
I will be very interested in reading the name of this new paraphrase.
You are making a personal interpretation whenever you read a word.
Just interested, what do you consider the one authentic translation into English? Wycliffe’s? Certainly, ever translation is built on translations before it, so I can understand the thought that they have some paraphrase attributes, but many of the versions named go back to the best manuscripts they can find and translate using the best scholarship they can muster from those manuscripts. And, as scholarship advances and understanding grows, they can be valuable in their contributions to understanding the word of God.
They are different things
You don’t know the difference between a translation, an interpretation, and a paraphrase. They are THREE different things.
Where? Sometimes that can happen.
Please give some examples of non-Christian evolutionary biases making their way into translations. Do you think it is okay for Jews to translate their own Hebrew Scriptures? You seriously need to look into the translation process and then you’ll see that it is not such a simple thing as you imagine. A study Bible with good foot notes helps. Do you realize that we don’t have any of the original manuscripts of any books of the Bible (technically called autographs)?
Well the TR is pretty much set in concrete, but which of the many Critical Texts do you prefer and why?
How do you know? Have you read it? Have you studied Biblical Hebrew in sufficient depth to be able to critique it?
I’d agree that there probably are too many Bible translations, and that some of them are less than helpful. (Don’t get me started on the Passion “Translation” for starters.) But to dismiss a translation as just a “paraphrase” or an “interpretation” before you’ve even read it is just being judgmental if not outright ridiculous. Unless you’re claiming to be some kind of mind reading psychic or other, but that is still being judgmental and ridiculous anyway.
“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
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