…nor wantonly put people at risk. Do you know and/or are free to say what the conclusion was?
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you missed the context in your reply to my statement. I suggest you go back and read the post which i quoted so you understand that i was responding to someone else’s claim about food offered to idols! I think that statement that another respondent made concerning the offering of food to idols also has validity…
Daniel 1:8 “But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the king’s dainties, nor with the wine which he drank”
its just that I also happen to think that based on all of the other texts i referenced where alcoholic drink was not given a favourable report (and there were quite a number of them), Daniel clearly did not drink the kings wine for health reasons as well.
Since i follow the same bible daniel did…that applies to me (I believe in Jesus Christ and therefore I am a “spiritual Israelite” according the the New Testament description of non Israelite followers of Christ).
google search “Daniel Fast” i think you might find it an interesting read!!!
The context was your “tripe” comment to beaglelady where using things said by a completely different person is hardly appropriate. It goes to show that you play fast and loose editing the comments of people in this forum as you do with scripture.
And Randy’s comment is certainly NOT “tripe” either. IF you are going to read between the lines then the kosher status of the king’s food and wine is a far far more reasonable understanding of the passage than your insertions into the text which clash badly with Jesus in the gospels. (And yes some wine is kosher and some wine is not.)
You make it far more likely that rather than following Jesus you are following the Pharisees who condemned Him.
My lament over the immense problems with alcohol abuse is simply not enough to give a pass to such a free hand you have with editing the Bible or your “tripe” comments to other participants.
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Thanks. That is a good point.
That’s only true if vaccines work perfectly, and none do. Vaccine requirements are almost always for the protection of everyone (including those who can’t be protected by vaccines), not just the one being vaccinated.
Yes, there’s the rub. But the same thing applies within-country, too. Endangering the people you’re supposed to be ministering to doesn’t strike me as a good approach.
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The question remains, what makes it a sin (with alcohol, or vaccines, or eating ice cream)? Is is a verse in the Bible, an edict by a board, or an individual decision that separates a soul from God when the same action by someone else would not be sinful? Or some combination of those things? Or something else?
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Love your interesting moniker, Glipsnort (Steve)…I recently talked with someone who referred to the “mark of the beast vaccine”…and I had a chiropractor (a few years back) whose school-nurse wife refused the flu shot, which her husband also advocated (it fell on deaf ears in my case —as a school bus driver who has seen lots of sniffly kids)…as long as people have poltical/religious/suspicions-of-Big-Pharma-and-the-beast issues, you are not going to get everyone on the same page. Agree though that they may risk others…though they do not intend to or think they are.
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On another dimension - after suffrage, prohibition was the original feminist issue. Ready availability of alcohol and marketing techniques (siting pubs and bars near factories, for example) were associated with childhood poverty and domestic abuse.
Most of the posts are concerned with consumption being right or wrong, permitted or sinful. If we accept that the Bible does not condemn moderate consumption, is there still a place for prophetic abstinence that is corporate, not just private?
I am not suggesting that we return to prohibition. Nor does it seem that alcohol consumption is now a societal issue to the degree it was. I would just like to see a conversation on this topic that considers calling and love for our neighbor. Then the conversation might be relevant to other contemporary issues that have far reaching impacts, for which corporate ‘sacrifice’ might play a prophetic role.
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I would certainly like to see the eradication of pressuring other people to drink (perhaps not as big a problem in the US as in some other countries). And I have never had a problem with the state control of liquor we have in Utah. Looks like we have similar state liquor control (retail sale by state only) in twelve other states.
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That seems a much saner plan than what we have in most states,were alcohol and gasoline are sold together.
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Better strategies to alleviate child poverty and domestic abuse might be to pay a decent minimum wage, subsidize childcare, provide low-cost medical insurance, and end racism.
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Thanks for that perspective – women had finally earned the right to vote and at the time it was one of their ways of showing that they were going to use their votes to make a difference. I wouldn’t want to go back to Prohibition either, but it was a baby step anyway.
Same here. It’s a shame it’s such a gateway to socializing in some circles.
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Women got the vote with the 19th amendment; prohibition was the 18th amendment.
Admittedly quite a few states allowed women to vote before the 19th amendment passed and prohibition had been an issue many women had campaigned on.
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I had no idea about that. Interesting!
I feel like often drinking is demonized and people try to link it to depression, or some lone sad drinker holding in hatred and rage and using alcohol to keep it at bay in some really toxic way. Bars are not all the same. Many bars are geared towards a emphasis on socializing. I think correlating bars with drunks is the same as correlating theaters with couch potatoes or buffets with gluttony. I’ve seen far more crime and violence happening outside of gas stations than in bars.
One of the things I want to do is visit many of the horror bars around the world.
I want to go to the Coffin Club , formally known as the lovecrsft bar , in Portland.
There is still 1-2 Giger bars opened. It’s themed after HR Giger whose is one of the designers for sci fi horror films and art.
The coolest one is also International but whenever I go to Japan I definitely want to go to the Vampire Cafe, though it’s less of a bar and more of a clubish restaurant now.
I’ll probably head to new Orleans soon and they have a handful of “ southern gothic” bars.
For me bars are associated with fellowshipping. There are some stereotypical people in them and some bars are lame and more likely to end up with something crappy happening there. But many are well managed and very safe with good staff.
Some are even really fun and have ax throwing , arcades or more quiet and instead of a sports bar it’s a film bar. I went to one years ago and the theme that night was Harry Potter and a lot of people cosplayed as characters, played one of the films and also had people who read poetry they wrote based around the film. One bar I go to has like 30 types of root beer and I sometimes don’t even get a shot and just chill with friends. Plus it’s a great place to go to get away from kids and teens.
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True… it wasn’t an amendment yet, but it was a primary issue for many women, including those who were already voting.
I hardly ever go to bars, but some of your bars sound like fun! And the ax-throwing? I hope everyone has a good aim!
It’s understandable that women would be attracted to prohibition back in the day. Abused women had few if any options. There were no shelters, no hotlines. Even the police were reluctant to interfere in domestic abuse situations! It was difficult for women to leave their abusers and support themselves, and divorced women were stigmatized.
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Do your communities observe Domestic Violence Awareness Month?
Visit the Domestic Violence Crisis Center
I do not drink, but I’ve fellowshipped in many a bar.
I’ve read comments from non-drinkers to the effect that they have come under pressure to drink. In my entire life, I can recall but one such occasion. Maybe I ran with a more respectful pack, but the attitude was always “you do you”, and there was never a need to justify not drinking.