Society also encourages us to overeat.
Itâs the Bible that thinks eating in moderation is the same as drinking alcohol in moderation. That is, both are acceptable.
How is it that one can ignore Daniel and his friends who saw fit to not eat meat or drink alcohol in Babylon and were rewarded by God for that with better health and better intelligence?
9 Now God had granted Daniel favor and compassion from the chief official, 10 but he said to Daniel, âI fear my lord the king, who has assigned your food and drink. For why should he see your faces looking thinner than those of the other young men your age? You would endanger my head before the king!â
11 Then Daniel said to the steward whom the chief official had appointed over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, 12 âPlease test your servants for ten days. Let us be given only vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13 Then compare our appearances with those of the young men who are eating the royal food, and deal with your servants according to what you see.â
14 So he consented to this and tested them for ten days. 15 And at the end of ten days, they looked healthier and better nourished than all the young men who were eating the kingâs food. 16 So the steward continued to withhold their choice food and the wine they were to drink, and he gave them vegetables instead.
Surely this must be an important principle to consider here? It is starting to look very much like there is a large amount of biblical evidence supporting complete abstinence from any kind of alcoholic drink.
I am abstinent myself, so I hear you, but I donât think thatâs the caseâotherwise Iâd think we would see a consistent movement toward vegetarianism as well.
It also sounds to me a bit more like theyâre avoiding meat sacrificed to idols, and non kosher foods which have not been bled appropriately. Iâd have to look up some commentaries again, but thatâs what I recall from earlier.
Thanks. Good discussion.
2 Likes
Special circumstances were in play here. We canât sit on those verses while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The Bible for the most part looks favorably on wine. Jesus chose wine to represent His blood.
And in the context of the rest of the Daniel stories, I read the implication being that God intervened miraculously to protect the health of his faithful ones even though they were on a diet that was obviously inferior nutritionally. (Keep in mind that, when the story was written, obesity and heart disease from eating too much meat were not issues facing, well, anyone. Starvation and poor nutrition from a limited agricultural diet were.)
4 Likes
Last I saw was âmaybeâ.
Yes of course Paul said that in one context. But he stated a general rule which could and can, apply to lots of things, including alcohol.
In Danielâs situation, consumption of the food and drink had other implications. Daniel & co were being integrated into Babylonian society, given Babylonian namesâŚthe food and drink available may have come from animals declared unclean in Hebrew religious practices and who knows if prepared in a kosher manner? Our issues today are different but the rule for âalcohol and demon rumâ should at least be not to put a bottle or a glass of it in front of someone with addictions â or drink publicly to offend someone with those problems
1 Like
Still, there is no blanket condemnation of drinking in general.
Seems to me this is one of those made up rules by the religious for a fabricated self-righteousness. That is the story presented in the gospels with the Pharisees accusing Jesus and His disciples about this.
The reality is simple, there is a difference between use and abuse. The abuse of alcohol is condemned by the Bible and everyone else. The abuse of drugs is condemned the law. And there are so many other things which can be abused including oxygen.
Getting drunk night after night is stupid. It will change your body chemistry and your brain. Donât do it and warn your children against this as they get that age â I certainly did. But calling all drinking of alcohol a sin and making an absolute prohibition against it doesnât help and will likely just undermine your credibility.
3 Likes
Besides, a pint of Guinness with some beef stew and sourdough bread on a cold winterâs day is a bit of heaven on Earth.
4 Likes
what special circumstancesâŚthat food offered to idols provides less nutrition? Do you honestly believe such tripe?
It is clear that the binary observation that Daniel gave to his captors was, if after a specified period of time we appear to have dropped below the standard by which all those we are compared with are found to be, then you may command us to eat your food and drink your fluids and we will do as you wish!
daniels captors very clearly found that he and his friends at the end of the period were healthier and more alert than all of the rest of the individuals they compared them with.
You can claim miracle of course. however, is the miracle as result of natural selection (and good eating) or a creator God who stepped in and physically and mentally altered their state because he is a âhands on creatorâ who literally cares about what we eat and drink?
Either way, I personally think that when God said âour body is the temple of the holy spiritâ he meant it! Daniel and his friends appeared more intelligent and healthier specifically because of the diet. Miracles are not always needed to prove the existence of God!
TrueâŚand that is what I saidâŚ
Nobody here is calling all drinking of alcohol a sinâŚthe whole idea of the biblical text is that if someone is convinced in and of themselves that they should not do it (whether due to addiction or inclination), then they should not do it. For everyone else, moderation in all things. You are right about getting drunk night after nightâŚ
1 Like
Read the story of Daniel and see for yourself. And read the rest of the Bible and youâll see that eating meat and drinking wine are considered okay in moderation. Did anybody in the Bible after the captivity recommend the Daniel Diet?
Jesus chose wine to represent his blood. Didnât he know better?
btw, do these dietary rules come from Ellen Whiteâs visions?
And since God asked Abraham to offer up his son in a burnt offering then everyone should offer their first born son in a human sacrifice? Do you honestly believe such tripe?
Stop making stuff up.
8 But Daniel resolved that he would not defile himself with the kingâs rich food, or with the wine which he drank;
There is nothing about food offered to idols in this story and there is nothing about the evils of alcohol either. This is more like warnings I have heard from doctors about too much rich food (high in oils) and too strong drink. But I frankly donât think it is about that either, but about Danielâs refusal to be dominated/seduced by the king and his freedom to eat the sort of diet he is accustomed to according to his own culture and way of life.
The test was about one thing and one thing only: that eating his own food would not bring the notice of the king and not get the servants in trouble for letting him do so. And NOT about some divine command about what is good to eat or drink!!!
Me too! What I donât believe is that you speak for God about what such a temple should eat and drink.
I do think we would be wise to investigate what a healthy diet consists of and there are better sources for this than the Bible. Though many people are finding that what is healthy is NOT the same for everyone.
2 Likes
jpmâŚinteresting âproblemâ you mentioned there. Personally, if someone chooses not to be vaccinated, then it is their choice. Just my opinion. I disagree, but OK by me. But when it comes to wanting to go on a mission trip where such is necessary (maybe the country of destination requires it?) â I suppose that would be a complex decision for that pastor. Maybe it depends on where the mission trip was â i.e., still inside this country? If so, then that is one thing, although people at her destination might not be amused. If to another country, that seems like a different matter. In one sense, if others are vaccinated then the only person at risk is the nonvaccinated person. But if they pick up something in their nonvax state and carry it overseas (etc), that seems problematic. The pastor decided as he did, but it depends on how distant the destination I suppose
You cheated! You actually read the story!
1 Like
The mission trip was run by an outside group. She just wanted the pastor to write the letter for her saying she had a legitimate religious objection. My thought is if mission trip organizers opened that door, they have to expect some to use it. They could have easily said no exceptions and not put people in difficult positions.
3 Likes