A.Suarez's Treatment on a Pope's Formulation for Original Sin's Transmission!


Luke 15:7
I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

Luke 15:31-32
“‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad , because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

These Jesus’ words suggest that the Father is more than “simply pleased”.

Amazingly, the three divine Persons invented “something” they consider to be “more than infinity”: To allow us sinners to repent, enter in relationship with them, and share their eternal life!

How about Jesus’ joy?

Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Hebrews 12:2

I think we are caught in semantics - the fruits (or gifts) of the Spirit includes joy. The point I am making is that our language is unable to describe God, so we use analogical terms. Thus, infinite is also inadequate, as we are bound to say God is more than infinite, or the joy from God overflows and is overabundant so that all of God’s children are filled with joy (and other gifts of the Spirit).

I am not arguing anything, simply expressing my view on these matters.

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This will be the situation after the last judgment, when “God is all in all”.

The great intuition by the Greek fathers St. Irenaeus and St. Athanasius (developing further the foreword to the Gospel by St. John) is the following:

In the final stage of creation, God’s children are filled with the overflowing joy from God. And this means to become part of the eternal generation of the Son from the Father in the joy of the Spirit.

And this means to become God: “God became man, so that we can become God” (as St. Irenaeus and St. Athanasius state, and following in their footsteps St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas also do).

And this also means that at the end the “creation” becomes “generation of the sons in the Son, the cosmic body of Christ” (the “cosmic liturgy” of St. Maximus the Confessor).

Yes. An eternal generation of adopted siblings, none of whom ‘become God’, regardless of your fixation.

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It also includes a new heaven and a new earth - all things become new.

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The statement that “Jesus-Christ is God not made making us God” is a paradoxical formulation by St. Augustine. The idea I try to convey is that to understand creation and the current state of humanity we have always to keep in mind how things will be forever after the last judgement.

As Tom Holland brilliantly states: “Without a dimension of the celestial, all things are transitory”. Without referring to how things will be forever, you cannot define truth.

After the last judgement life will be entirely divine: it will consist in an interpersonal relationship between the three persons of the Holy Trinity, and between these persons and a huge number of other human and angelic persons, who have entered God’s interior life and thereby become God as children of God in the Son of God. In this state, the children of God become embedded in the eternal generation of the Son by God the Father, so that for all practical purposes they can be considered generated and not created.

Before the last judgement only the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, can appropriately be said to be “not made”, and working to make us to reach the divine condition, i.e.: “making us God”.

This also includes the making of “a new heaven and a new earth” (Revelation 21:1), as GJDS rightly says:

The whole creation undergoes an ontological leap into a new act of being: it becomes integrated into the eternal uttering of the Word, it becomes “cosmic liturgy” (St. Maximus the Confessor).

When? Where?

The Father generates the Son (the Word) and the Holy Spirit is the love that proceeds from the Father and the Son.

These three divine persons decided that their Trinitarian divine life and happiness overflows to other persons. To this aim they brought to existence incorporeal persons (angels) and corporeal ones (human persons), and let them free to accept or reject God’s life and happiness.

Till the last judgement there will be human persons who may reject to enter the Trinitarian life.

After the last judgement there will be only persons sharing the life, love and joy of the Three divine persons. Those who rejected God’s love will no longer be persons, as they will be incapable of being in relationship to others. In this sense they will be selves without name, individuals of no importance for eternal life, “nobodies”.

Accordingly, after the last judgment it holds that all persons will share Trinitarian divine life as children of God, i.e.: be in relationship with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and thereby also be in relationship to each other. In this sense after the last judgement all persons (individuals with name) will be God: “God will be all in all”.

So God will no longer be the Trinity.

so how will you be a raindrop in the ocean?

It appear to me that those who insist on a bodily resurrection in their own body want to be their own self, e.g. be in the presence of God but still with their own ego. I can tell you that death will be painful for those who do not want to become part of that ocean but want to remain their own self with your own will. It is what my mum told me what you learn when you are dying - to accept “thy will be done”. It will be so much harder for generations to come that get more and more lured into “my will be done” by our materialistic society


Good comment!

God will always consist in the Trinitarian life, the relationship between the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

After the last judgment the saints will be sons in the Son, become God through the Son.

The identification of the saints with the Son, is certainly a mystery.
But this identification is a fact and initiates already on earth, as we are clearly taught by Scripture:

“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting” (Acts 9:5, 26:15)

You cannot see the non sequitur there.

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After the las judgment the saints in heaven will “sing”: “we are many, but we are one”.

Love will congregate “the many” into “the one and only Son, who is himself God”.

So there will be only one Son (consisting in the unity of all the saints with Jesus Christ), and God will always be the Trinity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Love will allow the saints to become part of “that ocean” that is Jesus Christ, the Son of God, while remaining “their own self with your own will”: They will become “one body and one spirit in Christ”, God.

This is the reason why love is key in Christianity: It is the “binder” that makes us (many different persons) to become unite with the Son of God, so that after the last judgment the Son and the saints form a unity, and there is only one Son, who is himself God.

God is love, the Son and the saints are a unity of love, God.

By contrast, those who do NOT want to become part of “that ocean” of God’s love, will remain alone forever as individuals without name, “nobodies” of no importance. And this will be certainly painful.

Your mum was absolutely write: When you are dying the only thing that matters is to pray “thy will be done”, as we have been taught by our Lord. But this does not mean to renounce to “our own self and will”, but rather to identify the own will with God’s will, to love!

Bizarre – all adoptees become the biological son, so to speak.*

Maybe you’re belied by this:

…I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.
Revelation 2:17


*ETA: …and since they have all been subsumed, Jesus no longer has the joys of individual relationships with the adopted siblings he rescued at such unfathomable cost to himself. You are refuted by Hebrews 12:2, as well:

Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

After the last judgement all saints will become one body and one spirit with the Son, and this unity is achieved by the Holy Spirit, according to:

1 Corinthians 12: 27
Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

Acts 9:5, 26:15
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting”.

1 Corinthians 6:17-19
He who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. […] Do you not know that your body is temples of the Holy Spirit, within you, whom you have from God?

Are these statements bizarre for you?

John 17: 21
“that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.”

Love creates a unity in which Jesus Christ and the saints remain themselves and yet become fully one.

Philippians 2:5-8:
he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,

he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!”

That “God makes himself nothing (man)” makes sense, if it is “to make man (nothing) God”.

John 16:21:
A woman giving birth to a child has pain because her time has come; but when her baby is born she forgets the anguish because of her joy that a child is born into the world.

The “joy set before Jesus” in the cross is that through “such unfathomable cost to himself” we are born as children of God and may share in his holiness (Hebrews 12:10), become God.

Not at all – they are figurative. Taking them literally is what is bizarre. “All of the group is of one mind and is in unity.” What do you think that means?
How about “All the people answered with one voice…”?

That seems different in essence than ‘we become God’ and contrary to it.

But then, you can as well say that the statements regarding the Trinity and that Jesus is the Son of God are figurative!

Your quote of mine is defective. My complete claim is:

The following comparison may help to understand what I mean:

If you put a droplet of water into a coup of wine, the water unites with the water-component in wine and becomes wine.

Similarly, if we become one body and one spirit with Christ, we become the person of God the Son, and thereby God.

This is precisely what the Apostle Paul understood when he heard Jesus’ voice claiming: “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting”. Paul didn’t reply: “Come on, Lord, you are speaking figuratively”!

In referring to God, ‘person’ means more than ‘an individual self’, it means a ‘subsistent relation’: As the Godhead is God, so the divine paternity is God the Father, the divine filiation is God the Son, and the divine love is God the Holy Spirit.

Thus, 'person’ does not mean simply exist but co-exist with other persons.

Actually, while dwelling on earth each of us is an ‘individual self’ called to become a person by sharing into the divine filiation. This ‘divinization process’ unfolds during our earthly life through reaching out to co-exist with the others, “loving each other as the Son loves us”. And this divinization will be achieved after the last judgement, when the saints become fully one with the person of the Son in heaven, as “they will see His face; and His name will be in their foreheads.” (Revelation 22: 4).

“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6

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