A Collection of "God Guides" Texts [or "God Directs" Texts] right here


(George Brooks) #1

I don’t know how many references I can find of people referring to “God Guiding” evolution … but here’s a start:

HEADLINE: “If God Guides Evolution It’s Still Design” by Max Andrews
DATE: Augsut 2013

“Asa Gray (1810-1888) was a proponent of evolution who suggested that God guided evolution. The problem for the theistic evolutionist at this point is that if God guides evolution, it is design. Guidance implies purpose and involvement. The theistic evolutionist, so defined as God guiding evolution, is not really a detractor from design, rather he would be a proponent of common descent, which is entirely compatible with design. It was not until the early twentieth century when a movement that emphasized Darwinian natural selection did theistic evolution attempt to reconcile unguided evolution with God.”

Did God Create Evolution? by Steven R. Hemler
DATE: December 2015

“In contrast with naturalistic evolution, guided evolution (also called theistic evolution) is another way to understand the evolution of life on earth. Guided evolution is the idea that God ordained and sustained the gradual evolution of life. Guided evolution is also called evolutionary creation in that evolution is seen as God’s method of creation. This approach is a reasonable and well-supported balance between faith and science.”

“Guided/theistic evolution and evolutionary creation holds that traditional religious beliefs about God are compatible with the modern scientific understanding about biological evolution. In short, theistic evolutionists believe that there is a God, that God is the creator of the material universe and (by consequence) all life within it, and that biological evolution is simply a natural process within that creation. Evolution is simply a tool that God employed to develop the vast diversity of life that we see on earth today. The idea of guided evolution seems to be supported by Genesis 1:24. . . .”

http://www.holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/stevehemler/lifeslittlelearnings/32.asp

I’ll get more in the days to come …

Anyone can feel free to collect quotes you like here as well…


(George Brooks) #2

Here’s another religious writer using the term “guide” or “guided” !

Debating Evolution: The God Who Would Intervene by Elizabeth Achtemeier

"There is some common ground among scientists and religious Americans. Forty percent of Americans hold that God “guided” evolution from simpler to more complex life forms over millions of years. Similarly, four out of ten middle-ranking scientists – a random sample we took from American Men and Women of Science (AMWS) – also believe that God “guided” evolution. These believing scientists also said in the survey that they can accept a God who answers prayers. "

http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=824


(George Brooks) #3

According to the Apologetics Press, it is the Positivists who object to the term “guided”!
They compare it to the meaninglessness [really?] of the phrase “God created everything.” But I think supporters of BioLogos would not consider that a meaningless sentence EITHER!

"Evolution also is associated with positivism, which promotes empirical science as the exclusive fount of knowledge. For [P]ositivists, God is not open to rational investigation with the five senses and the usual tools of science. In their opinion, “God guided evolution” is as meaningless and fruitless a statement as “God created everything.

Theistic evolutionists have failed to understand that the “entire outlook of positivistic science is profoundly incompatible with the existence of a supernatural creator who takes an active role in the natural world” (Johnson, 1994, p. 47)."


(George Brooks) #4

Here’s the first submission for the phrase “God Directed” !!!

"God and Evolution FAQ by Talk Origins

Q7. So if God directed evolution, why not just say he created everything at once?

Mainly because all the evidence suggests otherwise. If God created the universe suddenly, he created it in a state that is indistinguishable from true age. If he did create it that way there must be a reason, otherwise God is a liar. Whatever that reason may be, a universe that is exactly like one that is old should be treated as if it were old. "

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-god.html


(George Brooks) #5

Here’s two new uses of the phrase “God-Directed Evolution”:smile:

Theistic Evolution by Matt Slick
"A variation on the theme of evolution is theistic evolution. It states that God initiated life on earth and allowed evolutionary principles to bring man to where he is–maybe with a little help from God here and there. At least this theory includes God. But this theory was developed in part by Bible believing people who thought that evolution had some merit. In addition, it is an attempt to answer the many problems existing not only in the fossil record but also with how life could somehow randomly form out of nothing. Because of problems like this, some believe they can be explained by simply adding God to the picture: God directed evolution. "

https://carm.org/secular-movements/evolution/theistic-evolution

TITLE: Astonishing 88% of Americans Believe in Creation or God-Directed Evolution << phrase in the headline itself …

“PHILADELPHIA, October 17, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A USA Today/CNN/Gallup Poll reveals that 88% of the US population believes that God had at least some hand in the creation of life.”
[The phrase “God-Directed Evolution” doesn’t actually appear in the body of the article - - only in the headline!]

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/astonishing-88-of-americans-believe-in-creation-or-god-directed-evolution


(Tom Rogers) #6

Tom Rogers
Our research on this subject over the last twenty-eight years portrays God’s kind of evolution as His brilliant physical work in dismantling cells and reassembling their atoms to “evolve” a fuzzy crawling worm into a beautiful flying butterfly in a matter of days, not millions of years.
We are proposing a new Godly science that we are calling “atomic biology” as the study of the enormous amounts of supernaturally intelligent work necessary in finding, sorting, selecting, and precisely assembling the right number of the right atoms to build every new cell. All cells also require the supernatural “breath of life” in order to live and function, and most cells need to have their specific DNA assembled from atoms and intelligently programmed in order to make the cell function in its required specific way.
As we see it, Darwin’s theory of (macro)-evolution should be falsified because, by definition, it has no intelligence and does no work. It has many other short-comings as well.

www.realityrandd.com


(George Brooks) #7

@Tom_Rogers

It sounds like you are picking a fight with the Atheist camp of Evolutionary science. You and I are in agreement that God directed evolution. Sounds like our only difference between us is how old the Earth is.

George


(Patrick ) #8

Tom,
This sounds really crazy to me. Is there any real science behind any of this? Or is this just fanciful ruminations of someone’s mind?


(Tom Rogers) #9

Hello George and Patrick: (Sorry for delay. Am travelling and reception disappears).
I am sure there are many things we can agree on. e.g. material things are made of atoms and this includes our cells. Can we agree on this?
If so, where do the atoms for our cells come from? Can it be from anywhere but what we eat and breathe in? Can we agree that the majority of the atoms for building our cells come from our food?
If so, where do these food atoms come from? Can it be anywhere but from the soil, water, and air in our fields, gardens and orchards? Can we agree on that?
Then following this logic, we can see that we are actually made from “the dust” in a phenomenal two-step process: from atoms in the soil to our food, and from atoms in our food to our cells and us. Does this make sense?
Does this take any intelligent design or intelligent physical work?
Can we agree that even with our highly intelligent scientists and sophisticated equipment, we cannot build even one live protein using just chemical elements? (Of course if we start with some parts that already have the breath-of-life installed, we can complete a protein, but we cannot create even this tiny part of a cell starting from scratch). So, is supernatural intelligence and work required?
This is where our proposed new Godly science comes in as outlined briefly above.
One of our favorite examples that goes far beyond the parameters of possibility for natural selection, is the production of our replacement red blood cells. We all get a whole new batch over every approx. 120 day period.
For a 70 kg male, this amounts to (in approx. numbers) 2.3 million new rbc’s per second (C.J.Pallister) X 280,000,000 molecules of haemoglobin per rbc (G.J.Tortora) X 10,000 right atoms per molecule of haemo. (Max Perutz) = 6,440 quadrillion right atoms per second, 24/7, that have to be found, selected, precisely assembled just for a 70 kg male’s replacement red blood cells. (In our book we use the number “over 4,900 quadrillion of the right atoms for each adult in the world”. And this is less than half the atoms being worked with every second for our rbc’s because in the same second, a greater number have to be found, selected, and precisely assembled to build the food cells for each future second’s supply of atoms (we usually throw away the roots, peelings, or leaves from our veggies).
Then there are the other approx. 80 trillion cells in our bodies that require sustenance, maintenance, repair, and periodic replacement.
This amounts to a huge amount of careful and reliable precision work performed with amazing speed and dexterity for each of us. What other motive than that our Creator, Sustainer, and Maintainer must care for each of us immensely?
Any thoughts on this?

www.realityrandd.com


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(George Brooks) #11

Eddie, I understand your frustration.

But I hardly think someone can be SUSPICIOUS of Collins … when he has devoted years of his life to the very principle: God guides evolution.

I think the hesitation to be specific is a result of the ferocity of the ID/TE debate. Which is the prime reason why the duel between ID and TE terminology should be avoided from now on.

Once a person signs onto “God Directed Evolution” (which is a perfectly good alternative to or equivalent of “guides/guided”) - - then that should be the end of the problem.

They can continue debating the fine points if they like … but I just don’t see BioLogos as usefully fixating on the “fine points”.

George


(Patrick ) #12

Collins is an Obama Administration official confirmed by the US Senate. He can’t talk about his faith much, if at all, as Director of NIH. If he spoke anything about TE while Director of NIH he can have a real problem on his hands as groups such as FFRF would be all over him. In the US, high level US Government officials are required to limit their first amendment rights while in office.

As John Kennedy said, “Whatever one’s religion in his private life may be, for the officeholder, nothing takes precedence over his oath to uphold the Constitution and all its parts – including the First Amendment and the strict separation of church and state.”

So you are going to have to wait until Collins leaves his office to get further clarification on what he thinks now about God guiding evolution.


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(system) #14

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