6 Christians vs 1 Secret Atheist

Wow!..I mean wow :scream:

This video demonstrates that you would be hard pressed to tell a liberal Christian from an Atheist. This video by Jubilee is so telling. The horrifying part was one of the Christians said that the Atheist sounded like a lot of youth pastors today. The sad reality is that none of these people sound like Christians. :neutral_face:

This video demonstrates that group psychology played out in a heavily edited video can be entertaining. I’m not sure it’s wise to use something created for entertainment to make a case for whether or not someone “sounds like” a Christian based on a few brief sound bytes.

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I agree, but that certainly isn’t the case here. What he saw in this video is a microcosm. What this video demonstrates sound bytes or not, is that you will be hard pressed to tell the difference between Atheists and many people who profess to be Christian. Christianity is about love, but it is also about truth. Today’s “victocrat” society is about emotions and feelings, not trying to offend etc…and truth is not welcomed in that type of atmosphere, which has undoubtedly affected the church as well.

Pilate said, “So you are a king?” Jesus responded, “You say I am a king. Actually, I was born and came into the world to testify to the truth. All who love the truth recognize that what I say is true.”

I would be tempted to make a similar video with various fundamentalists and Satan worshipers to see if you can tell the difference when they are not allowed to say things like the name of their deity.

and…

Just because someone is a Christian, i.e. go to church and say they believe a set of Christian dogmas, doesn’t mean that God would call them a believer. As Jesus did with the religious leaders of His time, God may even see them as children of Satan or servants of the devil.

Just because someone is an atheist, or Mormon, or Muslim, or Samaritan, doesn’t mean they don’t find favor in the eyes of the Lord as a righteous person and blameless, perhaps even better and more so than all the so called Christians around them.

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I would love that!! :thinking:

In my camp, the first question we ask, what is your conversion story? the second question we ask, how do you know that you are a Christian?

Just because someone is a Christian, i.e. go to church and say they believe a set of Christian dogmas, doesn’t mean that God would call them a believer.

If I live in a garage, does that mean I am a car?

As Jesus did with the religious leaders of His time, God may even see them as children of Satan or servants of the devil.

The pharisees did not get in trouble with Jesus, because they followed the law. The pharisees got in trouble, because they were hypocrites by twisting the law/scripture in their own interests.

Just because someone is an atheist, or Mormon, or Muslim, or Samaritan, doesn’t mean they don’t find favor in the eyes of the Lord as a righteous person and blameless, perhaps even better and more so than all the so called Christians around them.

This is a gross misunderstanding of sin and how sinful sin is. Our good deeds are of menstrual cloths in the eyes of God. The only way God can find “favor” us righteous and blameless, is if He sees the perfect Christ in us, the true Christ (1 John); not Satan’s spiritual brother, not a great holy prophet, not some guy who had some really good ideas about helping others. But the messiah, saviour, propitiator, the lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world, the Christ-Son of God, God Himself, and that applies to everyone.

This is the type of Christianity that I am confronted with when I visit churches. Very superficial. But of course we are not to judge our fellow man as Christians, so none of them have proven themselves as Christ-like in my book.

Oh…we can judge our fellow man as Christians based on our tenets, but we should never do, is judge their salvation.

Pleas read Matthew 7:1-3

Interesting video Wookin. Thanks for posting it.

I think questions such as this illustrate a question that we all face as Christians: how can I demonstrate Jesus Christ effectively in the world today? What comes to my mind is the book In His Steps – where the pastor challenged his entire congregation to ask the question in every situation, “What would Jesus do?” The different members of the congregation were then put into situations where this challenge was really put to the test – challenges to such things as honesty and integrity in their business dealings, sacrificial giving, keeping their word even when it hurts, laying down their lives for one another in love, and so on.

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There is something wrong with the entire premise of that little exercise. That you are going to correctly pick out a deliberate (and determined to trick you) liar from a group of six other strangers that you had never met or known in any other context - that just isn’t going to happen. About religious identity or anything else. And specifically on Christian identity, nearly everyone from this culture, even if they no longer adhere to faith - know very well how to caricature what they have rejected.

That … and the whole let’s stick seven people in a box and figure out with an intellectual contest who’s in and who’s out is already in itself a caricature, not even close to any serious approach to faith.

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Words like “Christian” would not be allowed in that video, remember? Is the name the only difference between the god you worship and the devil?

Yep, just like I see so many Christians in history doing, because for them being Christian seems to have meant to them that they were entitled.

This is a gross misunderstanding of meaning and how meaningful meaning is.

I certainly think there is a lot of misunderstanding about sin, particularly because of those who use the concept as a tool of power by equating sin with disobedience. I refute this utterly. Sin consists of self-destructive habits, and failing to understand this means not knowing how destructive, addictive, dangerous, and compulsive sin can be.

I find it so bizarre that people buy into this OT attitude that treats personal hygiene as an abomination.

Good deeds are only filthy rags when you think they entitle you to something. And perhaps in that way they ARE like devices for personal hygene such as menstrual cloths. When the things you do are for consideration of others they are a good thing but not when they become a prop for attitudes of superiority and entitlement. In any case, none of what you says changes the words of Jesus, such as in Matthew 25:31-46 or elsewhere in the NT such as James 1:27 or in the OT such as Isaiha 1:17.

That may be, but clearly in the case of Noah, Genesis 6 (from which my words where quoted), this had NOTHING to do with being a Christian or a believer in Christian dogma.

No… reciting names, titles and religious teachings does not make God find favor in us as righteous and blameless.

Madam, unfortunately most of our news today is only a few carefully chosen sound bites. In fact people sometimes vote for candidates, for public office, up to our president, based on sound bites rather than real facts.

Today, we have access to unlimited news, both true and false and really not enough time to really look into most of it.

But why does society gather wisdom so slowly? I think Isaac Asimov would agree that one reason is that so many don’t even value doing so, satisfied with simply repeating wisdom from millennia ago, when the world and social conditions were so different than they are now.

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Dear Mitchell,
This is a question that has bothered me since a young age. The wisdom that I discovered in my life was actually counter to society. As I dug further, I found this it is not just apathy, but rather an active force against wisdom in the world - rhetoric. This aspect of society has been a constant, if not on the rise in the recent century. Yes, wisdom has to be earned and we must overcome the rhetoric to achieve it. Socrates taught a universal truth in this regard and there is no need to relearn what he taught, just to apply it to discover wisdom. Jesus, confirms this when He said, do not throw the pearls to the swine. The pearls of wisdom much be searched for and individuals are sometimes motivated to search for these pearls, but society in general is much harder to motivate to look for wisdom - rhetoric is much easier.

That’s unfortunate. I think we can do better here. We are all capable of going beyond click bait, and in this of all places, that should be encouraged.

That is incorrect – bad rhetoric in fact, inconsistent and self-defeating if not downright deceptive or delusional. Any claim that you are not using rhetoric here is a lie.

Rhetoric is just the use of language and logic to search for and fight for the truth. It is the substance of civilization. Perhaps it often sounds like I put down pastors, politicians and lawyers because rhetoric is their methodology and there is no doubt that it is greatly inferior to the methods of science with regards to honesty and objectivity. But the methods of science are only applicable within a few areas of life and thus we need the methods of rhetoric for other things.

So make no mistake… rhetoric is what we do here in this forum and every other forum. Otherwise we would be simply be silent… or only state the results of measurements such as statistics and never seek to attach any meaning to them. And to be silent when not all is right with the world would be irresponsible.

If we do not communicate wisdom then everyone reinvents the wheel… and to be sure there are people who insist on doing things in this way, listening to no one… or pretending that they listen to no one. But if we do communicate wisdom and the reasons behind it then that is rhetoric… but to be sure there is a difference between rhetoric which is honest and that which is deceptive – and perhaps the first step towards honesty is to acknowledge the role of rhetoric up front.

Dear Mitchell,
Yes, rhetoric is what we experience every day, but there is not requirement for truth in rhetoric, whereas there is in wisdom. Rhetoric is the art of persuasion used as it was by the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. 95% truth and 5% falsehood is allowed in rhetoric, but not in wisdom.

Wisdom cannot be taught, it must be learned. The most simple example that I have is “The Work” by Byron Katie. I tell my wife everyday that she is responsible for her own happiness, and this is what Katie teaches. But embodying this wisdom is extremely difficult in a world filled with rhetoric telling you that happiness comes from what you wear, how you look, what you own, what diploma’s you have, and on and on…

Best Wishes, Shawn

An educated athiest will always have more knowledge about God and the Bible, than an uneducated follower of Christ.

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There is a grain of truth to this, but there is a big flaw if it stands in the way of learning what you can from others. I would say rather, that there is a highly variable percentage of any particular wisdom which much be learned for oneself, depending not only on the particular wisdom but also very dependent upon the person. To be sure there is a matter of absorbing wisdom and having the background both for the meaning and applicability. Furthermore both of these, knowing the meaning and applicability can be highly variable as well. For example, a person might have the personality that they adopt and follow things they are taught quite readily, but without seeing it in action within their own life, the application of what they have been taught can be a bit shallow, and confronted with some situations, they find themselves unable to apply it.

But I thought “you will know them by their fruits.” So, unless this video can demonstrate the kinds of fruit produced by these liberal Christians, a vital piece of information is missing. The qualifiers focused on by the group seem shallow by comparison.

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