The real point is that it is not the hot potato that this forum makes it. Most Christians do not even consider the ambiguities of Genesis with science. It is almost polar, whereby neither impinges on the other because they are never allowed to meet.
In the beginning God created the Heavens and the earth… even the terminology Heavens is not seen as a problem.
In truth it is scientists need to know (and be right) that drives this debate rather than Christian dogma
Richard
I would fully agree that these topics don’t come up very often in the vast majority of congregations.
It is scientists’ curiosity to understand how the universe works that drives science, that is for sure. Just like YEC is rarely brought up in congregations, it is also rarely brought up in scientific circles.
“Dress them up” is a good way to put it.
The tragedy is that they don’t realize that they do so because they hold a world view where truth is measured by science.
I think cognitive dissonance plays a role which results in contradictory positions. YECs try to portray any science they don’t like as a faith based religion, a rather blatant Tu Quoque fallacy that boils down to “you’re just as wrong as I am”. We are also told by YECs that science is just atheism, and yet they try to claim YEC is supported by science.
Like Geocentrism before it, once science started advancing there was going to be an unavoidable clash between religious traditions and what we discovered in nature. Perhaps in 100 years YEC will be looked upon in the same way we look at Geocentrism now.
This is demonstrably false. I quote dozens of bible texts, that are also cross referenced with other bible texts from different bible writers, in different places, and different times…who agree on the topics i talk about.
One cannot use almost zero bible referencing in trying to defend beliefs… cite naturalisms conclusions, then fabricate nonbiblical beliefs in support.
Attempting to change scripture…despite numerous other bible texts dissagreeing with those fabricated translation and intepretations is a very dangerous habit there.
I liked you comment…although i will make an observation that in both world view there, the Biblie is not the foundation…human reasoning is.
One, I do not agree that science interprets itself…very clearly it does not. Second, science methods are manmade…we conjur them up. Trying to claim they are rock solid just because they are repeatable is ridiculous…one can keeping driving a car dangerously and never have an accident…that dosent mean one is a safe driver despite the results.
As far as i can tell, Christianity is entirely unscientific. When thinkng about the notion of death, resurrection, and the second Coming, there isnt a single thing about Salvation that is scientifically plausible i dont think. How does one prove incarnation and resurrection with science?
That is troubling for me…deeply troubling and its why i reject both world views [ID and ANE]. Christian is biblical, not scientific. Trying to use science to explain and even proove Gods revelation and history is pointless.
I’d hope for 20 years, but would be happy be 50.
Nope. YEC assumes that science is a measure of truth that can be set above the Bible so that the Bible is to be read scientifically. It also assumes that understanding the Bible doesn’t require any homework, but that’s really just an aspect of the previous.
Where in the scriptures does it say that Genesis intends to teach us science?
But that’s exactly what YEC does: rather than ask what the Bible actually is, it is assumed that it is like twentieth-century objective newspaper reporting.
But that phrase you quoted is a perfect description of what YEC does!
!!! But that’s the entire YEC enterprise!
What phrase i quoted? I quote someones post…as you have also referenced there.
Since I AM yec and you are not, its absurd that you are trying to insert into YEC beliefs and into my own world view, statements of fact that are the very opposite of an overwhelming amount of published YEC material.
The SDA church openly publish our YEC in that it is founded on a literal reading of Genesis1-11. This is also supported by SDA Seventh day Sabbath and Heavenly Sanctuary beliefs.
These forums claim THE SDA church started YEC because of a “literal reading of SCRIPTURE” (which isnt correcf because in bible history YEC is clearly promoted from the earliest times of human existence) Science comes second.
Other groups such as Creation Ministries and Answers in Genesis for example, state emphatically "Genesis chapters 1-11 in the way they are written and we read through a normal use of language which has already been interpreted for us by bible writers, are the very foundations of our physical and spiritual existence.
THis one –
“one that explicitly says " we will follow the evidence only so long as it leads to certain predetermined conclusions.”)"
That’s a perfect description of what YEC does. AiG says it right up front on their website.
I have read hundreds of pages of YEC material and it almost always plainly puts science up as a measure for the scriptures, a measure it demands the inspired text has to adhere to.
Again . . . where in the scriptures does it say there is any intention of teaching science?
But that’s false – YEC requires ignoring the normal use of language, something extremely obvious in the Hebrew but even in English in the case of the Noah accounts.
They have set themselves up as teachers but they do not know the scriptures.
Would you agree that there is no scientific evidence we could ever show you that would change your mind?
Since when was the oldest, first, original always right or better?
Knowledge grows and improves and as it does our understanding changes. That applies as much to the structure of Scripture as it does to life as a whole.
We are not living in the Dark Ages! There are many who think that science and technology has gone too far but that is a different conversation. You cannot stick your head in the sand and just claim the knowledge isn’t there. (well you could but eventually you will suffocate)
That is a very valid question.
Richard
“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
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