So it sounds like there is not a clear cut answer to the question “does duplication increase information”.
FWIW, in neither Shannon or Kolmogorov variants does duplication increase information content.
So it sounds like there is not a clear cut answer to the question “does duplication increase information”.
FWIW, in neither Shannon or Kolmogorov variants does duplication increase information content.
Again, AA != A unless A={0,1} in multiplication. not a series.
Are you familiar with Shannon or Kolmogorov’s theories of information? I can explain why duplication does not increase information content, within those theories, if you are interested. Be warned, there will be mathematical notation! And, maybe some homework, too…
Of course I am.
And no you can’t.
Alright, here’s your first homework assignment.
We have the following probability distribution over bitstrings:
P(X=00) = 0.25
P(X=01) = 0.25
P(X=10) = 0.25
P(X=11) = 0.25
First problem: calculate the Shannon entropy of the distribution.
Second problem: apply the function f(X) = XX to the previous domain, and calculate the Shannon entropy of the resulting image.
Question to answer: did duplicating the bitstring increase, decrease, or leave unchanged the Shannon entropy?
Parragator, of course!
What’s that got to do with duplication?
No. I’m suggesting that what we know about the genomes so far appears to be an inadequate explanation.
It’s often not just duplication - it’s duplication and divergence that I’ve been pointing out. You haven’t acknowledged divergence post duplication.
Though, in biology, straight duplication is also sometimes an “increase in information”. Amylase gene duplication in humans and dogs would be an example. Extra copies of the enzyme increases the ability to digest starch - whether in the pancreas or in saliva. I discuss this in the Evolution Basics series, which you can find on BioLogos.
So apart from 4% DNA, what else is needed? You’re half banana after all.
f(X) = XX is duplication. E.g. f(00) = 0000.
Yes, duplication and divergence can increase both Shannon entropy and Kolmogorov complexity.
Not sure about your last example. If we are talking mutual information, then by the data processing inequality duplication cannot increase mutual information.
And? What point are you trying to make that rationally necessitates the supernatural? That rationally proves that abiogenesis and evolution are impossible? That the human mind has a non-physical component?
Forgive me I can’t join up the dots from 00=0000, 01=0101, 10=1010, 11=1111 to that. Now I know Lacanian analysis is actually about something, that is something I can’t even reach for. I kid myself I can reach for QED, but whatever you know is something I don’t know is there to be reached for.
It’s helpful to get a solid understanding in information theory, first, since a fair amount of the ID theory I know depends on information theory. Otherwise, I have to keep dealing with misunderstandings like “duplication creates information”. It is tedious, I know.
Extra duplicates of amylase have beneficial effects on the organism and came under natural selection (in multiple instances). If that isn’t an increase in “biological information” then you’re using a definition of “information” that doesn’t have biological meaning.
Not necessarily. Doubling the word count in my English paper may meet some word requirement to get me an A, but that doesn’t imply the information content of the paper has increased. It may well have decreased
First I want to thank @glipsnort and @DennisVenema for taking questions and adding some clarity on this thread. Very helpful!
No agenda in this - I’m trying to characterize the actual delta between human and chimp. Numbers tend to vary depending on who is reporting them, and consequently so does their significance.
How much of it is transcribed? Do we know? If none, then that would make sense. If some percentage of it is transcribed, wouldn’t that belong in the “don’t know” camp?
Also, could you comment on Human Accelerated Regions? How are evolutionary biologists explaining their existence (of course their function is also under investigation)?
… but I’ve already explained that these duplicates had beneficial effects to the organism that came under selection. No need to revert back to an analogy - the English paper - you have a real-world biological example to look at.
What misunderstanding? Duplication is information.
“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
This is a place for gracious dialogue about science and faith. Please read our FAQ/Guidelines before posting.