[quote=“John_Dalton, post:39, topic:38755, full:true”] I’m pretty sure he told me they use Coptic in their liturgy, down in Long Island, NY.
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A descendent of Old Egyptian I do believe.
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Yep, pretty amazing to think. It has a mixture of Greek loanwords. It’s like church Latin, they speak Arabic at home. I think I read there are some efforts to repopularize the language though.
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Could be wrong, but I think the revival of Hebrew in the modern nation of Israel is the only example of a dead language being “resurrected” and returning to common use.
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Cornish and Manx are also resurrected languages.
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Where there is one, there are usually more …
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That’s the most successful example I think! They try hard with Irish too. It wasn’t (and isn’t) totally dead in all parts of the country, but most Irish people I meet can’t speak well.
I can imagine that that is so…
Animal life is not made in the image of God. By the way, if the Bible isn’t your source of ethic for the time being, what is? I’d challenge you on this since you’d have to conceed that your beliefs about the moral impermissability of the subjugation of life is necessarily subjective without any moral standard like the Bible.
In the allegorical narrative of Genesis, I’d be hard-pressed to interpret subjugation as a command to go around and just ravage the whole lot of forests or something like that. Sounds more like a command that humans will have the highest authority of all life that exists in the world, and that we can hunt, domesticate, eat and use for resources (like fur) any other animals as we please. Is this something you take issue with, or do you have a different interpretation on the precise meaning of Genesis 1?
EDIT: Looks like you’ve changed your mind (just realized this as I scrolled through the thread):
My current understanding is this:
God wanted man to rule over his creation
God wanted man to extend his dominion over other beings by force, if need be
God nonetheless made creation as a temple
Whilst we are to have dominion over all else, we are not to desecrate God’s holy temple. We are to use resources, hunt and farm in moderation.
There is no need for any violent subduing in the modern world, since humans have already asserted their dominion over the earth through creating nations.
I think I’m back
Let me know what you think of the contribution of my comment anyways.
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I have no issue with using nature for food, clothing, building etc, I just think it should be done in moderation. Maybe you have a point that without the Bible there really is no objective standard for calling it wrong. I think the cosmic temple imagery means we should do it in moderation, and not destroy God’s holy place.
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This is along the lines of Paul’s thinking in 1 Cor. 6, where he calls our bodies a temple of the Holy Spirit, and on that basis we should use our bodies to honor God rather than dishonor him, which does nothing but dishonor and harm ourselves. We should care for the temple of God’s creation just as we care for the temple of our own bodies, loving it and caring for it as we care for ourselves. This is nothing more than an extension of the principle to do unto others …
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Have you formally converted to Karaite Judaism, with all that this entails, or is it strictly a personal and private thing?
Not formally
Sure we should do it in moderation. Self-control is a big thing in the Bible. I don’t think Genesis is suggesting we should go around and ravage a forest here and there.
I would say a different motivation, not moderation. Moderation is almost a legalistic view, following or not following rules. It you try to be moderate for the sake of doing so, you will fail. But if you try to honor God, you will be moderate. For it isn’t you being moderate then, but His Spirit inside you.
That is the crux of mankind.
Moderation will result, when you live to honor God.
Some see that the earth is ours to subdue, so they ravage it and kill for ‘fun’. Others see it is our to protect, and will go to the extent to insult/hate or to harm those that harm it.
But if we followed the 2 greatest commandments, allowed the Spirit of God to live through us, trust God is in control and vengeance is His. That light and love of God will turn those who destroy and exploit the earth, or God will defend it, or possibly specifically call us to do something. But until He does, we are to love and trust.
Moderation or excess would be something you have to think about or control, put the well being of others before yours, and moderation or anything or any law of God will be followed. All His laws are fixed by the heart, not the head, plug into the Waters of God and good fruit will come.
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But many animals became content and willing workers under domestication. The latest thinking is that dogs domesticated themselves, hanging around human camps, losing their fear.
Many, not all
Isn’t that what I said?
I like the idea of “stewardship” rather than "dominion. " I think sometimes we read the Bible and we are not reacting to the Bible so much but we are reacting to some overly literalistic or harsh interpretation we remember hearing from some fundamentalist. You might understand that surely there must be more to the passage than that but you are so turned off you just put it out of your mind. I have reactions like that sometimes even though I didn’t grow up in a fundamentalist church. And humanity is fallen and sinful. We don’t know what role God might have had in mind for a human race that had not fallen - maybe think of “dominion” or “stewardship” in that context.
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Welcome to the forum, Jacob.
I agree. It is interesting to speculate on what our stewardship would or could have looked like in an un-fallen state. I also think care is needed here not to take on board unwarranted assumptions about what some modern traditions allege that we should conclude from Genesis. I.e. that earth was a “pre-fallen” paradise at one point that God toward which God will steer us back. There are too many scriptural problems with that view for it to be viable, I think. When God creates a new heaven and a new earth, it won’t just be an old one re-warmed. It will be … well … new!
So in this more scripturally-grounded context I suggest that God created us with the capacity to steward creation – to bring order to chaos; and that we used our newly minted free-will to foment rebellion instead. And since nothing catches God by surprise, this all proceeded toward the incarnation and what Jesus would need to accomplish for us.
Our stewardship is still proceeding in fits and starts, and many backslides. Does any of that match up with where you were going with this? What are your thoughts on it?