Why does Theology have to be so complicated?

[RichardG (Richard Gillett)]

@Roy

: You’re also assuming that survival to adulthood, but no longer, is a sufficient criterion to make a belief system to be worth considering

No, I think it is more being able to make a decision as opposed to just accepting what you are told.

Whether a religion is worth onsidering is rather like asking Why you killed your father. IOW it is a loaded statement that devalues religion. (belief system)

I am guessing (by your tone) that you, yourself, do not value such a thing.

Before you even consder a belief system there needs to be a void or vacancy for it to fill. If you do not see the need or even the existence of God you will not consider any sort of beleif system worth considering.

Richard

[Miekhie]

@adamjedgar

Omg…the two covenants are the same with the exception that in the second it is God who promises to write His laws on the hearts and in the minds, God is the one making the oath…in the first, the people made an oath to follow laws written on tablets of stone.

Im sorry to be blunt here but its frustrating…Why cant people get this right by going and actually reading and comparing what the bible actually says about the two covenants instead of believing wives tales that arent biblical?

Hi Adam,

No need to be blunt here. You need to be careful about claiming biblical because there is nothing in the Bible that implied that God was the one making the oath in the NT or the people made an oath to follow laws. You need to stick close to the Bible if claiming to be biblical.

[Miekhie]

@adamjedgar

Also, if we take Christs parents model…what happened? Christ was dedicated as a child, then baptised as an adult.

You should know better that as a Jew, Jesus was circumsized on the 8th day. There was no need for this event to be mentioned because it was a universal practice in judaism.

[paleomalacologist (David Campbell)]

“Worth considering” is not the same as accepting. Yes, people with wrong beliefs may survive, but the fact that they have survived, and in some cases across many generations, suggests that they have a functional belief system, whereas a brand new idea does not have that pedigree. Other types of evidence might support a decision to reject an established belief and accept a new one. And beliefs may have a wide range of mixture of correct and incorrect components, cf. C. S. Lewis’s essay on “horrid red things” [a child said that something was poison - it has horrid red things in it].

You are saying that it is wrong to say that something is wrong. Besides being self-contradictory, the assertion also is widely used for an excuse to hold whatever view one wants rather than critically examining one’s own beliefs for accuracy. By affirming that vaccine avoidance is generally a bad idea, you are assuming that the medical evidence in favor of the COVID vaccine generally being a much better health bet than not getting it is correct and those with different beliefs are wrong. Of course, that assumption is very well grounded in a lot of evidence. But it contradicts the assertion that saying that other views are wrong must be arrogant and therefore can be rejected.

Of course, it is quite true that people tend to be arrogant, even when they are correct and other beliefs are wrong.

[adamjedgar (adam james edgar)]

Richard,
Forgiveness has never changed between the testaments…the model has always been the same.

The Old Testament Sanctuary service begins with the sacrifice…the altar of sacrifice is the first element inside the tabernacle courtyard.

The atoning sacrifice in the Sanctuary service symbolises Christs sacrifice on the cross.

Also, take what the new testament tells us about Abraham (deemed righteous centuries before the cross)

Romans 4:3: “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”
Galatians 3:6: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith”
Genesis 15:6: "And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness

So this means Abraham was saved by faith 2000 years before the apostle Paul wrote about the idea.

Humanity has always been offered this method of salvation.

The only difference between the two
covenants…

1. The Old Covenant was written on tablets of stone
2. The New Covenant is written in our hearts and in our minds.

You say that that nothing has to be done to receive a gift…actually that isnt quite true.

1. You must accept it
2. Righteousness requires one to choose to believe …

Act 16.31
They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

You are suggesting that foriveness of sin is automatic. Thats not correct. God cannot forgive unconfessed sin. Part of the process of confession is recognising the wrong and then asking for forgiveness.

God then immediately.forgives us without any “payment” if you like.

Theres no payment because Christ has already made payment…he died on the cross. Thats what His death is all about, making atonement for sin…which has always been planned since the foundation of the world.

Revelation 13.8
All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

The reason this was planned from the foundation of the world id suggest, is because Lucifer had already rebelled in heaven prior to the creation of earth and so sin existed at that time. The test of the charge against God by Lucifer was either universal or, lucifer was cast this this planet because it was in the planning of this creation that Lucifers rebellion began. It would be only natural to expect that this becomes the testing ground…which id suggest the book of Job illustrates.

[St.Roymond]

@Roy

So if a student asks a teacher e.g. whether they are a baptist, the teacher isn’t allowed to answer? Even when not in class?

Carefully – the guideline I was given when student teaching was “Don’t answer where anyone but the asker can hear”.

[St.Roymond]

@adamjedgar

The Old Testament Tabernacle and Sanctuary Service teaches that its only confessed sins that may be forgiven.

Irrelevant – the New Testament trumps the Old.
Read Galatians, especially ch. 3.

@adamjedgar

God cannot forgive unconfessed sin.

Jesus disagrees:

Some came, bringing to him a paralytic carried by four men. And when they could not get near him because of the crowd, they removed the roof above him, and when they had made an opening, they let down the bed on which the paralytic lay. And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

No confession there, just forgiveness on the basis of faith.

@adamjedgar

Lucifer had already rebelled in heaven prior to the creation of earth

Where is that in the text?

[adamjedgar (adam james edgar)]

@St.Roymond

@adamjedgar

The Old Testament Tabernacle and Sanctuary Service teaches that its only confessed sins that may be forgiven.

Irrelevant – the New Testament trumps the Old.
Read Galatians, especially ch. 3.

you know St Roymond if you actually read the book of Galations???

Galatians 3:6: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith”

Its very important for all Christians to understand what the symbolism of the Old Testament Sanctuary actually means for The New Testament Gospel. Knowing about the sanctuary/salvation process doesnt save us, but it sure helps if we have a road map before us…otherwise how the heck do we know we are heading in the right direction or on the right road?

Again, The ALTAR OF SACRIFICE IS THE FIRST ELEMENT IN THE OLD TESTAMENT TABERNACLE (it symbolises the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross). How you cannot understand that very very obvious fact is beyond comprehension.

Ill make it really easy for you mate…look at the images below. If you cant see what is plainly obvious…Christ death on the cross is the FIRST element in the process of ultimate forgiveness for sins and righteousness by faith!

Without atonement, there is no forgiveness. The old testament Sanctuary proves that biblical fact!

There is a reason why Christ said in John 14:6

• I am (God of Moses)
• The Way (altar of sacrifice/Cross)
• The Truth and (cleansing from sin and pathway to the bread of life/table of shewbread inside the sanctuary)
• The Life (Holy of holies…redemption)

Baptism represents our commitment prior to entering into the Sanctuary itself and partaking of the table of shewbread, the wine, being given the holy spirit in the holy place…

The sanctuary is critical in understand what all the parts of the gospel actually mean and how salvation works.

[heymike3]

@Roy

It is arrogant to assume that you are correct, and everyone with different beliefs is wrong.

Not totally wrong. I can’t imagine anyone being totally right or totally wrong.

But a person may have good evidence for believing something that puts them at odds with a great number of people. There is a common tendecy today for people to believe that no one could be right about something like this… but that’s not how history has worked… so it’s a still a real and reasonable possibility.