Oh dear.
I’m not going to bicker with you, Vance.
Ok, let me clarify, the scripture does not claim “the scripture is God speaking.”
The scripture can quote God, but it doesn’t turn the scriptures, in their entirety, into the “Word of God.”
The newspaper can quote President Biden. That does not turn the newspaper into the “Word of Biden.”
In fact, the scriptures often say they are the words of people.
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Okay, let me repeat:
The scriptures are authoritative and trustworthy. They are not inerrant.
We don’t have to wink at errors, pretending they aren’t there, to recognize the value of scripture.
And Christians who redefine error to mean something else so they can cling to a false doctrine bring discredit on the church, the Body of Christ.
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And those without humility before scripture can miss a lot in their industriousness to highlight what they find wrong with it. Like unhitching themselves from the Psalms, for instance. Or even Lamentations.
Nobody expects you to wink at errors. And I doubt you can show me where someone like Walton or Longman or Wright or Keener has winked at an error.
Has anyone here ever claimed that such words are in any way false or have errors in them?
Why must Scripture be all or nothing?
Richard
I’d say parts of the Bible falsely claim to speak for God a number of times. Re-Reading the Old Testament in light of the person of Jesus makes it hard for me to think otherwise.
Yet “trustworthy” does not require “inerrant”.
The only people who have a problem with that are those stuck in a modern materialistic worldview.
It is most certainly defined in the terms important here: it is never about vocables or scientific/material details, it is always about concepts.
Just because it doesn’t have a dictionary built in or an appendix that states things in modern, linear, and binary propositional truth does not mean it is not defined.
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Any Hebrew scholar would be baffled at your claim because it most certainly is! It’s a stark difference in the Hebrew scriptures; when a prophet specifically states “Thus saith the LORD” it’s saying “These are God’s words”.
It can appear as in Isaiah 44:6, “כֹּֽה־אָמַ֨ר יְהֹוָ֧ה מֶֽלֶךְ־יִשְׂרָאֵ֛ל וְגֹֽאֲל֖וֹ יְהֹוָ֣ה צְבָא֑וֹת”, “Thus says YHWH king of Israel and YHWH of Hosts” (this is an interesting verse since there are two distinct entities here both called “YHWH”), or as found repeatedly in Jeremiah, e.g. 3:12, “כִּֽי־חָסִ֚יד אֲנִי֙ נְאֻם־יְהֹוָ֔ה”, “For I am gracious, declares YHWH”.
If the writer was not asserting “this is God speaking” then there would be no point in putting “thus says YHWH” or “declares YHWH”.
That is pretty off into the deep end, isn’t it?
Being that clear from the start would have helped!
Christians should define error the way the scriptures do, not by the thinking of modern materialism. A good example of how the scriptures define error can be found in Paul’s statement about “a different Gospel”: he doesn’t mean a confusion over whether Jesus was crucified on the Passover or the day before, he doesn’t mean a disagreement over what Jesus said about the one who would betray Him, he means a different message, one that changes the meaning of the Incarnation and/or the Atonement.
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Interesting question, depending on how you mean it.
Origen distinguished several different meanings of the term “word of God” as it applies to the scriptures, starting with the Incarnate Word of whom all the scriptures speak and working down to statements of unbelievers who are quoted in the text. His point was that we rightly call it all “the word of God”, it’s just that the term doesn’t always mean the same thing, and he used the example of preachers; since their job was to “preach the word”, then sermons could be called “the word of God” – and yet preachers were known to make mistakes!
Ah, back to the question of how much of the Old Testament is just the writer’s opinion!
That’s why the Psalms, for example, must be read carefully, since so much is a writer declaring his view of something, including of God.
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You either missed or ignored the clarification and then quoted it.
Strange.
Yet the scriptures never define error, despite your assertions—unsupported by evidence from scripture.
[quote="Dale, post:
I thought you said God allowed the writers to write and kept them free from mistakes? That means that the Psalms represent the writers inerrant view of something. Unless you think God only inspired parts of scripture?
I would say opinion in the Bible about God applies to way more than just the Psalms. God sanctioning Israelite genocide and rape comes to mind for me. The Pastorals putting women in their place due to the created order is another.
Vinnie are you saying inerrancy is a natural result of inspiration?
If so, why?
God inspired Moses to lead Israel out of Egypt, yet Moses made errors.
God inspired Peter to lead the early church, yet Peter made errors.
No, I’m asking about St Roymond’s view.
If I thought God wrote the Bible from a heavenly perspective then of course whatever it says would be elevated over any other mode of knowledge in the world.
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