That’s interesting. Truth comes from reality last I knew, so I guess you don’t get any from the Bible.
That’s false. I don’t know of any Jews who claimed that God sent all that suffering upon them. It made some of them lose their faith. Centuries of Christian antisemitism played a significant role in the holocaust.
I tried reading it again … slowly … but I kept falling asleep. Sorry.
It’s true that I’m easily distracted, but maybe the problem is I lack the intelligence to follow your clear logic … once agian, sorry.
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There you go again. I have a different view so you wrongly make assertions about it.
You have no idea what I understand from the Bible. You only know that it is not what you do, and therefore it must be wrong!
I have news for you. You are not God, nor do you have the sole view of Him and how He works. it is your beliefs… (And they are not mine)
I am not telling you to change them. I am trying to show you what you believe and what that means in terms of the world around you. But, as you do not trust me I am wasting my time.
Richard.
In that case, I find your argument - that scripture claims to say certain things - rather confusing.
Firstly, this sounds like a false dilemma fallacy.
Secondly, that is not my belief. My belief is that none of us can possibly know how “God does, or does not control everything”, so it’s pointless debating the matter.
I’m not sure what you’re arguing here. Perhaps you’re claiming that certain biblical accounts of God’s actions are not literal, but allegorical … or something.
I was wondering how you would answer that question.
I would say the Jews themselves would know best how to interpret the events described in the ancient Jewish Scriptures … as far as I know they interpret them as literal history. That’s good enough for me.
If you find certain biblical accounts too distasteful to interpret literally, fine. What matters is loving God and keeping his commandments.
So you haven’t actually talked to ordinary atheists, you’ve just interacted with the activist version.
Quotes from them have been posted here before.
But we do because you keep telling us.
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There are no “ordinary atheists” online? That’s an interesting claim.
My understanding is the more orthodox Jews (and/or Orthodox Jews) are not Zionists because they believe the exile was just.
Why do they believe the exile was just?
Because they believe the OT?
And I believe the secular Israeli destruction of Palestinian homes and businesses, murder, theft of land and subsequent new settlements and displacement of people as refugees is evil. Israel is an apartheid state, making widows and orphans. American evangelicalism supports it. 
I used to see an Iranian doctor years ago. One day we got to talking about the Israeli-Palestinian situation. He told me that in the Middle-East, the Palestinians are hated even more than the Jews, and that the Palestinians are stuck where they are because no Middle-Eastern nation wants them living in their territory. Interesting.
???
Sounds like you’ve watching too much television and listening to too much UN-Palestinian propaganda.
The land of Israel was promised by God Almighty to the Jews as an inheritance forever. No power on earth can remove them from that land … get used to it.
“And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; but fire came down from heaven and consumed them”
Rev 20:7-9
And you don’t remember the rewards for obedience and the curses for disobedience. Oh, and the exiles. Check out Deuteronomy.
“I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew … they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.
Just as you were once disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may receive mercy.”
Romans 11:1-2, 28-31
That’s not relevant to stealing others’ land who have been living there for centuries. The Orthodox Jews have it right, that they should be buying it back. There are civil laws in the OT as well, about property ownership and how you treat aliens and refugees. You are supporting the atheistic secular government of Israel.
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