I personally already believed that. So my mind did not change to the alternative theories.
Minds are changed, but never by such discussions, except incrementally, by the drip, drip, drip of education. Otherwise they are stalagmitically changed by reinforcement of existing thinking.
That is true most of the time.
On occasion, there is a Road to Damascus experience.
After I repented and turned to Jesus, my reading of the scriptures laid a foundation that God had spoke them. But just in the last few weeks of searching the scriptures before Jesus and then the words of Jesus and the apostles about that particular point, it became rock solid and useful.
Oh how important and precious all the scriptures are.
Oh Iâve had more of those than I can shake a stick at. But like everyone else, nothing like the original.
I think there is something âoxymoronishâ about having trivially many âDamascus Road Experiencesâ. Shouldnât that expression be reserved for an event that is literally life-changing for the recipient? And if so, it would be definitionally impossible for anybody to have âmore of them than they could shake a stick at.â If these things are happening to you on anything like a regular basis, then I suggest they arenât âDamascus Road Experiencesâ so much as perhaps just a series of erratic changes as you get jerked back and forth by lifeâs circumstances.
Like 97% of the population. And thereâs nothing erratic about the trajectory, the loops of cognitive dissonance, the intrusive thinking.
Changed my mind? No.
As I see it, the issue isnât whether God spoke the law or not but whether they are absolutes for all time independent of the cultural context of those to whom the laws were given.
The initial question is, âWas God the author of the Lawâ, did he audibly speak it? To make it more precise Iâll narrow it down to just the Ten Commandments.
I think it is possible but not probable. I certainly think God speaks to people but almost never, if at all, by creating sound waves in the air. The divine breath isnât moving air but inspiration. Even if a large number of people hear it, that doesnât necessarily mean it is because of sound waves in the air.
Sound waves is not the topic. God being the author of the Law is the topic. The fact that people and Moses heard Him audibly is proof that God is the author and not man. It was not an inspiring inward influence that led to the writing of the Law, it was Godâs audible voice. That is the point of the original thread.
I donât know if you read the thread about âWho was the author of the Lawâ or not but the scriptures were plain that God spoke audibly to the people and Moses. Here are two that show God spoke audibly to the people and Moses.
Ex 20:22 Then the Lord said to Moses, "Tell the Israelites this: 'You have seen for yourselves that I have spoken to you from heaven: 23 Do not make any gods to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold.
Num 12:6"When a prophet of the Lord is among you, I reveal myself to him in visions, I speak to him in dreams. 7 But this is not true of my servant Moses; he is faithful in all my house. 8 With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles; he sees the form of the Lord. Why then were you not afraid to speak gainst my servant Moses?" 9 The anger of the Lord burned against them, and he left them.
If it wasnât from sound waves then people didnât necessarily hear exactly the same thing. I am reminded of the Pentacost where people all heard things in their own language â and changing the language makes it inevitable that this changes the meaning quite a bit as well.
Even if you say God was the author, and I do say God was the author of the Bible, there remains a question about what this means exactly. Just as God speaking isnât quite the same, so also, God being an author of something is not quite the same. Godâs writing instruments are people and history rather than pen and typewriter.
But does âGod is the author of the Bibleâ automatically mean I should agree that God is the author of the law? No. Taking things out of context is an alteration of what was written. The law given in the Bible is given to a particular people in a particular situation with a particular cultural context and a particular set of problems.
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You donât need to make it hard, itâs pretty straight forward. Read Exodus chapter 20. God spoke to them, that is why He said to Moses to,âTell the Israelites this: 'You have seen for yourselves that I have spoken to you from heaven: 23 Do not make any gods to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold.â
They heard the voice of God state the Ten Commandments and were fearful.
Then in Num 12:6 God says He speaks face to face with Moses. Not in riddles or dreams. Moses actually saw the form of God.
If by law you mean the Torah , which is better understood as the teachings, itâs something that both men and God wrote.
We see different styles throughout the books which lets us know itâs different authors and writing styles. We have no reason to believe God used automatic Writing but instead inspired them. He gave them the inspiration and they wrote it down.
Start simple with the Ten. Read and see if God spoke it to Moses and the people.
Are you referring to the ones from exodus 20 or Exodus 34?
I am talking about Exodus 20
its restated in Deu 9:10
So I believe God told them something.
But the stories leave up some potential areas of contention.
Do you believe the 10 commandments are different from the 10 on the stone tablets? Was the first 10 commandments the same as the first set of tablets or was there multiple stages of 10?
What do you believe God told them?
This scripture is in reference to the first tablets that God wrote Himselfâ; the ones Moses broke. I would have to do more reading to see if itâs just the 10 or the other things that God spoke to Moses when he was on the mountain.
Ex 32:15 Moses turned and went down the mountain with the two tablets of the Testimony in his hands. They were inscribed on both sides, front and back. 16 The tablets were the work of God; the writing was the writing of God, engraved on the tablets.