Where did sin come from?

I hear you. Jesus was honored to be the “Son of David,” a messianic title, and David was an adulterous murderer. It’s like the narrative is working really hard to make sure we get the point that it’s God’s story, not our own.

Another creative person decided that we could ship people off-world.

We could use some improved Apostles, also. When we decide to improve on the Bible we get into trouble.

You both make very good sense. Out of habit, I tend to approach problems, including reinforcing my Christian Faith, while wearing my “science specticals” and the use of reason. Over three centuries before Jesus, the Greeks enjoyed a ‘golden age’: producing Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. If Mind and Intelligence were the key ingredients needed to mend a flawed humankind, surely this was the trio to accomplish it.

Recently I bought the book, “Christianity No Longer Makes Sense” by Evan Davids. The thought struck me that this was what Paul preached to the Greeks: Christianity didn’t even make sense in 40 A.D. The belief that the Creator of the entire, wonderful Universe loves one of his creatures enough to suffer along with them IS almost too difficult to accept. Yet it makes life worth living. And God is the One writing the script, not you or I. And He assigns the leading roles.
Al Leo

2 Likes

We tend to take credit for stuff when it turns out well, and the success (we feel) was powered by our own intelligence and work. And perhaps giving credit where it is due (especially to others, though) isn’t an entirely misplaced priority. But we see even in the old testament where God wants to make it clear that it wasn’t by human might that something happened, he tells them to send most of their soldiers home … or do something silly like march around a city seven times. It’s stuff we would never do on our own. But when it works, we can’t very much take credit for it. Those are the kind of hints God does enjoy giving out.

Abraham is so highly esteemed by the Jewish people that there are synagogues named after him: “B’nai Abraham” (Sons of Abraham)

@Christy,

But this location was in the vicinity of Abraham. Abraham appeared to be the custodian of the general location.

Abraham is an honored figure in Judaism and by extension, Christianity. Is that what we are affirming?

I’m not sure, @Christy.

The New Testament likens paradise (or is it purgatory?) to a place right next to Abraham!

It’s a figure of speech. It’s not a simile, it’s metonymy. You’re still taking it literally.

Oooooo… that’s a new word for me!

Metonymy | Define Metonymy at Dictionary.com
METONYMY Definition & Usage Examples | Dictionary.com
Metonymy definition, a figure of speech that consists of the use of the name of one object or concept for that of another to which it is related, or of which it is a part, as
“scepter” for “sovereignty,” or
“the bottle” for “strong drink,” or
“count heads (or noses)” for “count people.”

Agreed, @Christy!

My own particular answer to the origin of sin relies on perhaps a different definition of what sin is.

As humans evolved they became more conscious of themselves and their environment and their potential to make choices increased. Ths greater potential to make free willed decisions takes on the potential or a moral quality. God could through various ways give growing consciousness soemthing of the Trinitarian will for goodness and good relationships. The moment that human beings go against this divine intention revealed to them then that becomes a sort of rebellion and this difference between what they could be and what they remain to be in selfish choices is what makes up sin. Humans can make good choices in line with the divine intention but more often choose their own sellf will that can lead to immoral and unspiritual actions. In as much as our ancestors and we choose self over Godly revelation, that is our state of sin. It is about choices and the capability of good or bad choices that is what sin is about.

@cosmicscotus,

Does not Genesis spell it out? The very moment when Adam and Eve know of “Good and Evil” … their moral agency is at once revealed… and revealed to be the foundation of the alienation of humanity from God.

Free will is all well and good… but if you are ignorant of God’s law, there is no sin to speak of. This is the foundation of Eastern Orthodox views regarding infants and children who have not attained moral maturity.

By “God’s law”, do you mean our sense of morality or the specific legalities of Judeo-Christian theology? How do people who have never had exposure to Christian beliefs fit into this?

note: I have no argument to present, just really curious as to what your views are.

@T_aquaticus,

I am open to both of the standard responses to this question:

A. That God’s Law was stamped on our hearts (at least at some kind of minimum) at the moment of Adam’s transgression; or

B. Whatever universal awareness of morality that exists at a metaphysical level, that is stamped on our soul by God for all of Adam’s descendants.

1 Like

The question was about accounting for sin if a historical Adam and Eve did not exist and I think I provided such an explanation. Of course if you believe in historical Adam and Eve then you can use Genesis as your explanation. I do not, hence etc etc

Okay, @cosmicscotus

And so if we don’t hold to the historical presence of Adam, we have to get the knowledge of morality from God to humanity.

I have several postings over the last year or two suggesting an Adam-less approach of interpreting the Adam story figuratively, in a God-Guided context:

  1. Adam and Eve represent the first humans to arrive at the threshold (as per God’s plan) of Moral Awareness and Moral Agency.

  2. Even the person who is singled out by God to be “the first” (there is always a “first”), has to mature to the point where moral responsibility has appeared by virtue of his/her maturity.

  3. Before Adam/Eve, the human neural system was not advanced enough to fit God’s criteria and/or plan.

  4. This point could be any time after Homo sapiens becomes recognizable as a modern human. By mathematical process, within 2000 or 3000 years, the entire human population has this first moral being’s neurological capacity passed on genetically - if God works at it.

Hey so I know this thread is stale by now but Roger Olsen just posted about Original Sin. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2018/03/original-sin-gone-american-christianity/

If anyone still cares be good to hear how his thoughts contribute to what’s been said here already.

1 Like