Where are Adam and Eve in the Story of Evolution? Four Possibilities

Even though I’m an amateur chess player, I’ve no idea what you’re talking about … and I’m afraid to ask!

@Jay313

Universalists sometimes refer to this model of salvation.

Back in the sixties or seventies…it is said that chess groups would host public tournaments of 50 players against one Grand Master. He would walk around a long table, making a move and moving to the next player. By the time he came full circle, his opponent had to have made a move and he repeat the process.

At the end of the day, he has check- mated all players - - never once violating any player’s free will.

In this model, God is the chess master… and he checkmates all souls into heaven.

Haven’t seen that analogy. By the way, it’s called a simultaneous exhibition, and they still are common. Some grandmasters have done them blindfolded. I can’t seem to look away from the board without losing my train of thought. It’s also worth noting that the GM usually makes a few poor moves just to make it more interesting and give the amateurs a chance. Does that affect your analogy? Haha

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@Jay313

The intentional blunders may well PERFECT the analogy! Thanks for the detail!!!

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I have tried interpreting your Grand Master analogy several different ways, George, but none of them helps me better understand Jesus’ role in the Christian church. First of all, why is it so uncommon nowadays to use the title: Jesus the Christ? I think that 95+% of the Christians I know think that Jesus Christ are two names that apply to a Jewish preacher at the beginning of the modern era–his first and last names, so to speak. I have a dismal understanding of orthodox Christian dogma, but I am most comfortable believing that Jesus was the name by which other humans referred to him, but after he disclosed his godlike nature and the role his Father set for him, he earned the title: messiah, savior, or Kristos (from Latin or Greek meaning anointed one–one sent to save humankind from the death of sinfulness and gain the life of the spirit.

This viewpoint is especially satisfying to me since now Christ becomes a title for a Spiritual quality, not a name of a certain human being on this earth. This makes it much easier to believe that some upright people, born on the other side of the globe and who were destined never to know the man, Jesus, can still lead a life pleasing to God and earn eternal life. Catholics are taught that they are ‘baptized in Christ’ through a baptism of desire. That’s OK, but it seems more clumsy than need be. [I suppose it is in direct opposition to strict Calvinism where **humans can do nothing** on their own to **earn** salvation] And, although I will not live to see the day, we humans are bound someday to make contact with another intelligent species somewhere in our galaxy. If evolution was God’s way of creation on their home planet, they may have turned out with more or less predilection to sin than we Homo sapiens. In any case, God’s saving grace (the Spirit of Christ) would be available to help them freely choose to become co-creators with the Father.

There must others with this view who have expressed so much better that I have. Can anyone lead me to sources?
Al Leo

Answer to Number 1: Or course, @aleo, the name “Jesus Christ” is treated more as a surname, rather than a Title.

In the Good Ol’ days, when Greek and Latin were more widely known, it was more common for people to see someone else use the phrase “Jesus the Christ”. But perhaps greater traction could be achieved by using an adjusted title:

“Jesus the Anointed”. Of course, the problem with this version is even “anointing” is becoming a more elusive notion in English/American culture.

“Jesus the Sacred” or “Jesus God’s Chosen” might be better “translations” in the sense of capturing the idea without being bound to literal linguistic cognates.

But can anything beat “Jesus the Messiah” ?!

To answer your initial point about the Chess Master Analogy, don’t you rather chafe under the idea that those who died before Jesus was ever born are, arguably, not envisioned to be included in the salvation message of the Gospels? Or that folks in distant Africa before the arrival of missionaries are also not subject to salvation?

If we envision the role of Chess Master belonging specifically to Jesus, then the somewhat claustrophobic appearance of those who can achieve salvation can be remedied. At the Great Judgment, Jesus spends 1 hour with every waiting soul (simultaneously!).

He shares his heartache, his intentions, his vision for humanity. And each soul shares his thoughts with Jesus. At the end of the hour, everyone is convinced that He is, indeed, the Savior of all Humanity.

Beautiful Ending to an Exciting Book!

Leo, wouldn’t you buy a book like that?

To some extent, perhaps I have. The Our Father that I pray to is a God of infinite love and compassion who has always–even in pre-Adam days–wanted his children to know and to love him. As humans became more knowledgeable and could begin to appreciate the awesome power that our Creator has at his command, they (even ‘the people of the Book’) would cease to believe God could truly love such a seemingly insignificant player on the Universal Stage as we frail mortal humans. {I don’t really fault the New Atheists for taking this approach. Reason is just NOT going to get one to this incredible but most important Truth–God truly loves me} So, NOT to expiate some horrible sin by taking the role of a sacrificial goat, God sent his saving spirit into the world in the form of Jesus, who accepted the role of humble carpenter and accepted pain and death on the cross to show us that in dying to to our earthly animal Natures we can gain everlasting life in the Spirit. The products of Darwinian evolution are not all God wants them to be. His task in Creation has just begun.

I will admit to some schizophrenia. I want to hold on to the orthodox (Catholic) Christian Faith in which I was reared. I think it better serves youngsters growing up. But as one progress up the Piaget-Kohlberg scale of moral development (at least past #3) I believe one is better served by what I have outlined above. Comments?
Al Leo

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@aleo,

So, are you comfortable with Jesus as an agent of Universalist salvation?

Genesis 1:24-31
[24] And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. [25] And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
[26] Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
[27] So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
[28] And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” [29] And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. [30] And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. [31] And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. (ESV)