What’s your take on that? (Welcome, btw. ; - )
Hi Dale, thank you for the warm welcome.
Really interesting quotation. I’m not sure if belief in God is an experience per se. I remember how it felt the moment I came back to God. Or at least I remember the moment I reversed course & started my journey back. I think that moment could be described as an “experience.” Although, maybe the term “epiphany” is more apt.
Thanks, this really made me think!
Would you say you’ve had any “experiences” or “epiphanies” of God on your journey?
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Experiences absolutely, epiphanies maybe. I referred to one just today in another conversation. (It was when I knew I was in an unrecoverable tailspin not very long after having gone to med school at the age of forty-three 
, thirty years ago last fall.) If you have the patience, you might glean some more from an extended conversation about God’s providential interventions into the lives of his children, Evidence that is foolish to deny, that I’ve already cited above. There are other accounts scattered around over my several years here, but some favorites are Cabela’s, Request and Articulate Reply, and my losing a kidney.
This is becoming a more common experience. Even Augustine went there, and I think he might have been the first.
It’s hard to police the entire forum for what any one of us perceives as truth. The Mods do a good job of allowing freedom of expression and ideas within the bounds of the Forum rules. And any public forum like this comes with the assumption (often stated outright) that one can encounter a wide variety of views — enter at your own risk; read at your own risk.
As far as the term “disingenuous”, which is christianese for “lying” and “dishonest”, I would like to see fines imposed for its use. It has been used on me for telling the truth. If one disagrees with something or finds it counter to reality, state the case. I have seen that done very well in this forum. But it’s in discussions.
Calling someone (other than oneself) “disingenuous” assumes more than factual error, which is not the place of anyone here to judge.
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Out of curiosity, I did a search of the term’s use in the forum. There were numerous results by numerous people using the term in a wide variety of statements.
I believe this goes against the forums rules either way. I believe I have been guilty of it which is different from expressing confusion over a perceived statement. And I know of a conversation where this has genuinely occurred and when I brought this to the other person’s attention, I was told they don’t care. In that particular case, I’m pretty sure I let it go.
- Which would not support a conclusion that the word is meaningless.
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And some have even been deleted by the mods.
Yes, if fines were imposed for its use, then BL could probably fund itself for a while just through the Forum.
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It does go against the forum rules.
“Disingenuous” does not imply confusion on the part of the reader. It implies dishonesty on the part of the writer or even questioner.
My protests against being called “disingenuous” were deleted as part of an exchange in which it was applied to me for asking a question for clarification. Because I didn’t understand what was meant.
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“by means of a pretense of ignorance or unawareness” that sounds like drunken fist
Statements might be confusing a reader either because the other person is being disingenuous or because the reader misunderstood the statements.
Expressing confusion is a good term to use to bring a sense of heightened importance to this part of the conversation.
Absolutely. But it is not the reader’s place to determine if the writer was simply wrong, confused, or lying. Accusing the writer of being disingenuous, which has happened to me (I’ll refer you to the Penner thread but you won’t find the exchange, because Merv wisely deleted it.) when I asked for clarification, is not the place of the reader.
Being called a liar is of hightened importance to me. Because I am not one.
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I disagree as there are cases where this can be determined, and the course of action is not to dismiss it but to express confusion I believe.
For example:
Express confusion
Do not use the “d” word to do it.
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I’m going to do one better than they, and assume that the one who accuses me of disingenuity is not being disingenuous about my intent, but merely confused ;), so I’ll express confusion about their being confused. Haha.
Seriously, that’s a great response. Thanks. I agree. And then–maybe the Biblical suggestion of confronting, then reporting to the elders (mods) if not responding.
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Great question, but even here, often scientists miscommunicate. I agree with Kendel–accusation of bad intent does not help communication at all. It is very important to always assume good intent on the other person’s part. It’s in keeping with the Forum recommendations, to my understanding.
Thanks.
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If you mean someone who says what he doesn’t mean and makes a mistake, that’s totally me, often!
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