very interesting and engaging, thanks for the information and clarifications.
i agree there is sometimes some unfortunate confusion regarding use of the word “natural” in these discussions… i can mean a) not supernatural, or b) not guided by intelligent agency. i do find it helpful to clarify the meaning in these discussions.
Too good to be true! Augustine expressed my thoughts exactly. Which makes me wonder: you got a citation for that? Was that from an authorized edition, or something from the “dark web”? Is my internal desire for confirmation biasing my willingness to accept this passage as authentic and reliable? And IF it is authenticly from Augustine, how can we know he really meant it as we read it? Well, you can probably see what life in a pandemic of misinformation has done to me. ; )
Brother, I think this might be progress for both of us But actually, I have been awake for 36 hours (night shift / stupidity), so I feel even more stupid than usual. I won’t try to frame an intelligent response, except to ask, where does your doubt come from? Have you really not seen it written, quoting our Lord Jesus Christ?
“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”
Maybe you should start googling stuff before you confidently assert to scientists that they don’t know the basic things they do know about their fields. Viral capsids are the prototypical example.
Maybe you should actually try to find an example of “complex organic molecules” self assembling.
They have to be both complex and organic.
Well, it had evaporated from the original site I had copied it from, but here is another source (Harvard undergrads? 
):
I hope you got some kip. Gaming eh? Tut tut! I was up playing Brothers in Arms, Hell’s Highway. Two days ago I had to get a walkthrough to escape a burning building.
It’s impossible enough to do the second command. Especially as my love for myself is somewhat toxic. How can one do the first when it is dependent on a single seasonal money spider thread oscillating out of sight downwind from my lone, hilltop sparse autumn leaved crab tree, with no distal anchoring point to the grey horizon where the continuous pale ash dome meets the dark ash English countryside?
Yet I do.
Yes, l can see that! Praise God! Let us bow down and glorify Him.
Thanks, Dale! No doubt it was removed by the Deep State and brought back to light by the heroic efforts of revolutionary university students.
I appreciate your efforts to get it to me and the group. ; )
Because Jesus Christ Himself implied literal belief on the 6 literal days creation i.e.,
“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’"
The origins of YEC come from the view of the Authors of books and letters in the Bible which did see the world through the lenses of contemporary human understanding at the time of the writing of these books and letters.
But, knowledge shall increase.
There are passages that imply geocentrism and a flat earth because these were the common understanding at the time of the writing. I don’t think the context of human understanding during the writing of the Bible must be imposed upon modern day Christians.
Welcome, Fernando. We look forward to hearing more from you and about you. I would add to your quote of Jesus, that while that is used to justify a literal 6 day creation, it really is not what he is talking about, as he was talking about how the marriage relationship was meant to be, not the timeline of creation.
Exactly. It is called accommodation. And while some have no problem with using this for parts of the Bible they don’t apply it to Genesis 1-2 when it should be.
As I show on another topic in this forum (“Peer Reviewed …”), believing in that the days of Genesis 1 are literal, does not imply belief in YEC because the earth was created before the days began. Go read the article.
Besides, the Lord Jesus’ statement “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’" doesn’t imply belief that the days were literal.
The Bible doesn’t teach YEC. There are no passages which teach geocentrism or a flat earth. Indeed, one of the evidences of the divine inspiration of scripture is how it was kept free of the many false assumptions of people who lived when it was written.
Except he’s wrong about the Bible teaching geocentrism and a flat earth. The remarkable way that scripture was kept free of the many false assumptions of people who lived when it was written is evidence of the divine inspiration of scripture.
My knees are too bad for that. And He insists I talk to Him as an equal.
Thanks @jpm Phil.
I am a literalistic Christian who used to believe in the Young Earth Creationism and consider anyone who believes that human evolved from the apes cannot be a Christian.
Though many things have changed, I still consider that I still hold the literalistic views and the inerrancy and infallibility doctrines.
I believe theistic evolutionary worldview is compatible with the Bible and Christian faith. And, God has no issues at all.
I am a Christian, a literal believer.
I used to attend Dr Tim Keller’s Church, Redeemer Church, W83 Street during my stay in New York.
Now, I live in Geneva Switzerland.
I am an Indonesian who studied at Columbia University and lived in New York for 6 years, from 2012 - 2018.
I believe, Jesus Christ, within His humanity was not supernaturally equipped with the perfect knowledge about the state of the Universe. During His 33-year presence, God, the Father, did supernaturally reveal to Christ supernatural knowledge about the future like His suffering at the Cross, and might also be His second coming but not the perfect knowledge of the Universe as it has nothing to do with His mission.
Yet, there were, and there are some knowledge that the Son doesn’t fathom but the Father does.
In His divinity, now, of course, He perfectly knows the state of the Universe.
Thanks for sharing. It is interesting to know a bit of background. In my own experience, the change has been gradual in going from a literalistic early church life to deepening my understanding of God over time, led by the Holy Spirit, I believe. While now 68 years old and retired, one thing I am sure of is that I have much more to learn.
“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
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