Let me just say this before closing. If yhwh is different than allah then yhwh is obviously not one all encompassing God but is god of a small sect.
- And the Qur’an would be false.
- So, would a god of a small sect, who has moved through an all encompassing cosmos, appearing to humans over millenia, be more interesting or less interesting?
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Yes, the jews would be more interesting. They have indeed done a great service by bringing the message of One God. But yet more interesting is how they have constricted the cosmic god to their special posession thus degraded God. Quran has not done this degradation. No exclusive relationship, unlike the Jews. Let us ponder whether this has been the cause of persecution of jews over 3500 years. Perhaps this persecution
was ordered by God. Perhaps God is rebelling against His degradation.
- You’re not being a little unrealistic, are you?
- So what if a person has not consistently and correctly understood and valued another person with whom they have had a special relationship relationship in time and space?
- So what if a child initially thinks its parents are the source of everything and realizes that there are things that the parents can’t possibly give to it or can’t give to it ywt?
- It is one thing to say that a unique entity–who lives, moves, and has its being in a boundless cosmos that has, itself, always existed and will always exist–is not the boundless cosmos; and to say that a small sect has not consistently and correctly understood and valued the entity nor the unique relationship offered by the entity.
- It is another thing to say there is no such entity and that the idea of a relationship with such an entity is a complete and utter delusion.
- So what if a person has not consistently and correctly understood and valued another person with whom they have had a special relationship relationship in time and space?
Ha! You noticed that, too? Perhaps we can understand, now, why some Christians insist that a relationship between GOD and humans is not only possible, but is “life-changing”. Perhaps, too, we can understand why folks who continue to insist that Christians, Jews, and Muslims “worship” the same god are denying the possibility of “a personal relationship with God”.
- Are you suggesting that claiming to have “a special relationship to God” could be the simple reason, buried in, interwoven with, and sometimes hidden among all the other non-Jewish “justifications” for persecuting Jews? What a novel thought!!
Maybe Christians should stop claiming to have a “special relationship to God through Jesus Christ” too?
- I think not.
- Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you’ll find that in the Jewish Bible, historically YHWH “ordained” persecution of Israel for their failure or outright refusal to remember and value His “special relationship” with them.
- I’m not a prophet, but I think it’s relevant to point out that Matthew 5:10-12 says:
- “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”
- I think it’s interesting to note that,
- If there is a unique entity in the vast and all-encompassing cosmos,
- Persecution as a consequence of being a faithful believer is possible;
- Persecution as a consequence of being an unfaithful believer is possible…
- But if there is not a unique entity, and the whole cosmos is god,
- “Persecution” is simply a consequence of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, no?
- If there is a unique entity in the vast and all-encompassing cosmos,
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ReligionProf James F. McGrath agrees Allah/YHWH is one God and he’s an American Baptist. If I understand correctly. I want to hear his wisdom about Exodus. I hope he joins us.
Here’s his page at biologos and I’ve been reading what he writes.
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Yes, thank you. He’s a facebook friend of mine and a biblical scholar, and I asked him to help explain things on this (very long) thread:
You should follow him on facebook!
Congratulations on your journey to Jesus Christ. May you reach Him soon.
Regards,
Terry Sampson
So what? Van Til-ian Presuppositionalists argue that Paul, in his speech to the Athenians at the Areopagus, was addressing an Athenian presupposition that an all-encompassing, Cosmic God exists. It’s hard to claim that, theologically, any Christian can be more “orthodox”. But I “stood, shoulder to shoulder” with an atheist when we argued that the Van Til-ian Presuppositionalist making that claim was short-sighted and wrong.
My point: just because a person is among a minority doesn’t guarantee that that person is wrong. Nor does it guarantee that that person is right.
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I will try to contribute something useful but have not been following the conversation. What would you like to know?
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Expert Witness for the defense of the claim that “Yahwel” and "Allah are the same god:
Q&A: ‘Yahweh’ or ‘Allah’ – Who was Abraham’s God? | Dr. Shabir Ally
- Jun 21, 2014
- 3 minutes and 10 second Youtube
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A Witness for the counter-claim to the claim in the post before this one:
Are Allah and the God of Christianity the Same? Nabeel Qureshi Answers
- Jul 20, 2016
- 2 minutes and 15 seconds
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Neither YHWH nor Allah are God as He is. Neither is triune God the between of course. Glimpsed in the Son of Man. Not seen in God the Killer either side and in too much of Christianity.
What do you mean by this?
If the question is about the origins of monotheism then that is a topic I’ve written about, although with much more focus on early Christianity than the origins of Jewish monotheism per se. Books like Mark Smith’s The Early History of God may thus be more helpful. Key things to note are that even the Bible acknowledges that Israel was not monotheistic during most of its history. What more recent historical study has contributed is the recognition that the biblical authors reinterpret what was simply taken for granted during most of that time as willful disobedience to clearly-revealed commands. Key steps in the development seem to have been the prophetic opposition to Ba’al being worshipped as co-equal national deity when Ahab cemented an alliance with Phoenicia through marriage to a devout worshipper. The fact that Saul’s children had Ba’al as the theophoric element in their names shows that Ba’al was an accepted part of the Israelite pantheon before this opposition movement arose. Next Hosea interpreted the nation’s relationship to God through the lens of his own experience as victim of marital infidelity. When he called Israel to exclusive worship and it fell to the Assyrians, and then Hezekiah of Judah tried implementing what Hosea called for and survived the crisis, this cemented for some that what Hosea said was true and what God demanded. Yet not everyone was convinced, and we see that in Jeremiah’s time there were people who interpreted the troubles Judah faced as due to the cessation of worship of Asherah, the Queen of Heaven, rather than because they had previously done so. Remnants of the pre-exilic religion of Israel continued even after the Babylonian exile in Egypt and other places more distant from Jerusalem where the imposition of Torah and centralized worship was increasingly the norm and imposed.
Does this help at all?
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Just wanted to mention that Dr. McGrath (ReligionProf) has does extensive research on John the Baptist and the Mandaeans. And he’s translated the Mandaean Book of John, I believe.
Not by the hair of my chinny-chin-chin.
You want a reason to report me? Look elsewhere. My post wasn’t addressed to you.
Yes god persecuted them for lack of faith. But why have they been persecuted by humans for 2700 years at so many places? Arrogance of their special relationship? Pl know i am not a jew hater.
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Having a relationship with god is good. That relationship to the exclusion of others is trouble.
This is an open forum