Have you been born from above, become a new creation in Christ, born again, through the cross of Christ have you died to this world?
If so, how did this in reality happen to you?
I am not you. I haven’t been converted to your religious language or other religious forms. And I will never become you or be converted to using your religious language either. Being born again, and becoming a new creation in Christ are things which God does, not us – and He is the only judge about this also. I have never been so jaded or stained by the world that I would abandon what is right. But God says, “I set before you life and death, therefore choose life.” I choose life not death. And this includes all that the world God created has to offer – not that I am all that adventurous. My interests are more limited. I take care of my 81 year old mother and do some cooking for the rest of my family (wife and 2 boys still at home). I spend most of my free time reading or at my computer.
I grew up in an extremely liberal family (2 psychology majors for parents) – a child of the 60s with peace marches, communes, free love, and the smell of marihuana in the air. But I have never smoked pot or had sex outside of my one marriage – all the grace of God. I was in high school when I listened to a televangelist and begged Jesus to come into my life. But I didn’t join some religious group and not much changed for quite some time. In college I was still trying to figure out what the word “God” could possibly mean. It was in seminary that the words of Paul in Romans finally got through to me and considered myself a Pauline Christian at that point though there were still a number of theological issues I had to work out such as the doctrine of the Trinity, original sin and the atonement. I was baptized in a Vineyard church which I was involved with a great deal until it closed down.
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The terms I used and the scriptures they came from are the teachings of Jesus and the apostles, not some religious, churchy speech. As Jesus said, " You must be born again." A man must be born from above to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Paul gets very detailed about the new creation, being in Christ. You must be born of the Spirit.
Exactly. You’re wrong. Your analogy is useless. The faithfulness of Christ saves all regardless.
I want to bring up this aspect of the Gospel again, for in my interaction with many confessing believers, it has become very apparent, that too many this reality of our death to sin through the cross of Christ, does not have a deep foothold in their thoughts. So because of that they continue to believe that sin will always have power over them, but they consider it no big deal, so their attitude is, “We are just sinners after all, saved by grace.” Which translates to, “Even though I will always sin, I’m only human after all; God will still not condemn me and I will be saved and go to Heaven.” They live a life controlled by sin without seeing the need of truly being overcomers in this life. (The above paragraph was edited to express more accurately what I was trying to say.)
Gal 6:14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. 16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.
Col 2: 9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
As Paul says, “May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ”. I cannot boast in my own deeds for they are as filthy rags. I only want to exalt and boast of the cross of Christ. For through it I have been crucified to the world and the world to me. Through the cross God circumcised my spirit from the flesh. Once they were united, but now through the cross of Jesus, God has cut, severed, circumcised my newly created spirit from the flesh and the righteousness of God abides in me. 2 Cor 5:21 “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” So by having the righteousness of God abiding in me, He daily delivers me from sin. It is Him rising up inside me causing me both to will and do His good pleasure. I am being saved daily by Christ in me.
What we could not do by strict obedience (change our nature, free ourselves from the power of the flesh) God did by uniting us with Jesus. We were carried through execution, judgment and resurrection in Christ and the righteousness of God abides in our spirit, that is if we place our trust in Him. Rom 1:17 For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.” 1 Cor 1:30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God — that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”
This is the central aspect of the Gospel. Christ in us, the hope of Glory. God had planed the crucifixion of Jesus, for through it we die to sin. Rom 6: 6 “For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.”
Praise God for the cross of Christ. Glory and honor to God, Col 1:13- For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
I am having a hard time understanding this. Are there examples that you can give that show some Christians (or all) you may refer to live “a life of failure?”
I edited that paragraph to hopeful express more clearly the point I was trying to make.
I have come in contact with many confessing believers over the years who do have the attitude that, though sin is wrong, as long as we confess Jesus, sin is not that big a deal.
Their hearts are not sensitive to the grief it causes the Holy Spirit, nor how unloving to God it is. That should cause pain in their hearts as well, for having hurt so loving and gracious a Father. They diminish their reward, if indeed they are even children of the King and co-heirs with Christ. In any case, they have a shallow understanding.
All true… but… I think the reason is ultimately that sin is self-destructive. It is not bad just because God doesn’t like it. God doesn’t like it because it is bad. Most of the time God particularly doesn’t like it because of the harm it does to others as well as the harm it does to our own spirit. One of the difference between these two approaches is the prop one has for religiosity… the idea that sin is all about God and if you are not using the word “God” in every sentence then you are offending Him. There are Biblical passages on both sides of this issue.
Religiosity side: There are the commandments of the famous 10 about no other gods, keeping the sabbath holy, and taking the lords name in vain. And then there is the greatest commandment which puts loving God first (Matthew 22:6-40).
Other side: Isaiha 1 where God expresses a hatred of religious observances and simply asks them to turn from evil, do good, seek justice, correct oppression, defend the fatherless, plead for the widow. James 1:27 religion which is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
In balancing these in my mind, Matthew 25:31-46 comes into play where God equates love for Him with taking care of those in need. And this shifts the balance quite firmly against religiosity, for it makes the first and second greatest commandment one and the same. Thus I tend to believe that the commandments about God were of a more pragmatic nature in the creation of a people who would have a working relationship with God so that He could be their guide and teacher – and not really about God’s tender feelings at all.
Thus I cannot believe in the idea of the religion mongers that sin is about God and His tender feelings. Sin is about the effect on us – the damage and destruction these bad habits have on our own well being. God hates them because of what they do to us – because they hurt us and not because they hurt Him. In fact, I think the idea that anything that us pathetic creatures do somehow hurts God in any direct and immediate way is just plain ludicrous. Yes it pains God because He loves us – that I do believe, but that is all I can believe. This absurd theology that sin damages God and is therefore an infinite crime is just plain silly goofiness and I don’t believe any of it.
It’s about Family relationships. Yes, God feels pain, or else you deny that verse, and others. And of course, the individual hurts herself as well.
My favorite part of church is singing praise to God.
Why?
Is it because I imagine that I am actually lifting up God? No. It may indeed be lifting up God in my own mind and heart. But God is already the highest and there is no lifting Him any higher. All religious observances are about the effect on us NOT on God. In Isaiha 1, God made it crystal clear. All God really cares about is whether religious observances are helping us to turn from evil, do good, seek justice, correct oppression, and to aid those in need. None of it is to make God feel better as it is with all the pagan religions which seek to appease and earn the favor of gods like Zeus and Odin. With those religions it was all about man seeking to exert some control over his world by imagining deities which he could manipulate. I certainly do not believe in any such thing, quite the opposite. We cannot appease God or manipulate Him in any way. That is certainly a way in which I believe God is unchanging – He will to what is right and for the best. The only way we can affect what God does is by changing what the best course consists of. With our prayers for example, we can show some responsibility for things so that God can intervene without making us irresponsible.
I am sorry that you do not realize that we can bring a smile to Father’s face, anthropomorphically speaking. Find the scripture where it says he delights in us – it’s in at least one Psalm. And you disbelieve that we can grieve him. Huh. I guess he’s not very personal, or even personable.
I am sorry that you believe God is a hateful soul destroying monster who loves to torture people. And you believe we can pay him to direct His wrath elsewhere. Huh. I guess your god is not very good or loving.
…making up garbage is easy… …you seem to like that sort of pointless game… 2 posts now which you completely ignored what I said and simply made stuff up. Really!
Bringing a smile to your father’s [Father’s] face by delighting in him, obeying him and enjoying him is appeasing and manipulating. Sure it is. It seems you mostly and hubristically intellectualize about God and treat him as an abstraction without knowing him or even thinking about him as a person.
Though we do benefit from giving glory, honor and worship to God, that is not the reason it is done. It is given because He deserves it. It is His to have and own. It belongs to Him. The heavenly beings give it to him not because it benefits them, but they do it because it belongs to Him.
Rev 1:5-6 To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father — to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
Rev 4:11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”
Rev 5:12 Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!"
Rev 15:3"Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty. Just and true are your ways, King of the ages. 4 Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed."
We can make the Father well pleased or we can grieve the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter 1:17 “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
Eph 4:29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God.
In reference to doing good for the sake of doing good, the following is a good example that that is not enough. There are many organizations, societies, and even government activity that do what most people would call good, but they are all vanity. An organization or government that feeds the poor but don’t do it for the glory of God, those good works are rejected by God. For none of it is done in faith towards God and it is impossible to please God without faith. All of our righteousness is as filthy rags to the Father. Though there may be individuals that are involved in that activity that have God’s glory and honor in mind, those who don’t are not honored by the Father.
This is an example of a common interaction I have with people. I began a conversation about Jesus, repentance and forgiveness of sins with a customer of mine. I was telling her how through the cross of Jesus we can not only be forgiven but born from above, we can have God as our Father. That through the kindness of God executing us through Jesus’s cross and because of His offering of His blood, we can be free from sin and live a life pleasing to God. Her response was, “I never had sex before marriage, I help people in need because it’s the right thing to do. I am a good person. I don’t need the religious stuff you’re telling me.” This is a common attitude with most of the people I proclaim the Gospel to. They do not understand their depravity and that all their good works are useless to them. God only acknowledges those things that are done in faith toward Him and for His glory and honor.
It always has been and forever will be, only those things done for the glory of God that are of value. God deserves to be trusted, loved, obeyed, worshiped, honored, feared and glorified, BECAUSE HE IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD.
Paul says it best. Phil 3:7 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ — the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.
The whole world lies under the power of the wicked one.
Therefore, I will only boast in the cross of Christ, for through it, I have died to the world and the world to me.
Not inherently no. To the degree which it is appeasing and manipulating it is worthless. He will not change what He does to suit our preferences. He will do what is good and right – ALWAYS!
Absolutely! With this much I 100% agree.
This is not however why God tells us to do such things. He is not obsessed with what He deserves… that is a human thing and projected on Him by the religious because of the glory, honor, and attention they get by conducting such religious observances. Again Isaiah chapter 1 makes this perfectly clear.
Just because God deserves it, doesn’t mean God needs it. The only need is ours. And what God desires is for us to change from sin and evil to what is good. AND that is what puts a smile on His face, not a bunch of flattery and worship. The sole purpose of religious observances is to change us to what is good and right. If doesn’t do this then it becomes abhorrent to God… a whitewash to cover our corruption.
Praise and worship of God without obedience to him which is motivated by faith and love is of no value. But that is never what I am communicating in any of my posts, so in reference to me, you can feel free not to bring that point up again.
Matt 22:37Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
The second command has no relevance if it is not done from motivation of the first command.
You absolutely made out that it was and you belie yourself:
Yes, you do.
God’s joy can be increased. That is not only my (and others’) contention, but it is explicitly stated in scripture. I would also contend that it is a major if not the reason he created the universe.
A father in a nuclear family is the only one, and ‘already the highest’, but that makes him no less a person, a person with feelings. Likewise God with respect to his adopted children.