What Denominations are Tolerant of Evolution yet Conservative?


(Mervin Bitikofer) #41

Count your blessings!


(Randy) #42

Yes! It is quite lonely in my church in this respect. Wonderful folks–but very obstructive in terms of EC. Pastor recently taught that the earth was created “mature,” like Jesus and the wine. My son’s SS teacher was just going to run a series on why the earth is young (at 10 years of age), but he was moved up a grade because it’s Summer. I told him we can be respectful and learn. I wouldn’t want to just move based on that, though. We have many good friends. Nevertheless, I’m grateful for being able to talk with our EC brothers and sisters.


#43

My son’s SS class just had a “birthday party” for the earth – 6,000 years. Yeah… :stuck_out_tongue:


(Mervin Bitikofer) #44

Only 10 years! Most YECs I know are willing to allow for at least 6000 years, but maybe 10 years is a compromise between that and “last Thursdayism”! :smile:

[I knew what you really meant there but just couldn’t resist that.]

Learning to coexist respectfully will be a valuable skill for your son, as it is for all of us. We won’t do the world any favors by isolating ourselves in little like-minded communities.


(Mervin Bitikofer) #45

The candles could be bad enough to blow out on that cake. But I really don’t want to be around for the cake that they would have next door in the EC Sunday school class!


#46

You have a point there… young-earth is definitely a safer bet when it comes to kindergarten-age kids. :wink:


#47

It seems though that Biologos is also relatively exclusionary. They wouldn’t let a YEC in, and they seem very critical of YEC and OEC in general. They do evangelize evolution.


#48

Based on the number of YEC’s that post here I don’t see how you get exclusionary. Are in my opinion we are not critical of the YEC just the YEC arguments that they want to make.


#49

Well, I’m talking more about the site itself. It’s been my experience that the folks are interested in getting Christians to believe in evolution regardless of how much it costs from their faith. Peter Enns did an article where he basically just said the Bible held to a flat earth. More than that, there are even many arguments made against Intelligent Design.

It’s one thing to say evolution and Christianity can coexist, but BioLogos goes further, trying to get Christians to accept it even if it means denying inerrancy or a high view of Scripture. It makes me doubt if the two are compatible if folks try to deny inerrancy to foster belief in evolution.


#50

From the About Us page

If you haven’t done so already you might want to read the whole page.
https://biologos.org/about-us

It is pretty clear the Bible was written from the view point that the earth is flat. Saying “it teaches” a flat earth is debatable.

When did ID get added to the Bible? It is just another theory (cough, cough) like the theory of evolution.

How, exactly, do you define inerrancy? And to say “belief in evolution” gives the impression you consider evolution to be a religion and not the scientific theory that it actually is.


(Phil) #51

Exclusionary? Try posting on most YEC or ID sites for good examples of that. Also, Ihave been to YEC programs, RTB programs and have had AIG bring up their interpretation of Genesis innumerable times in church bible studies, but never have seen a EC program or heard an EC express their opinion in a church setting unless asked in my middle of the road Baptist church.
As to being critical, certainly I am critical of what I consider bad theology and bad science, and that is expected and appropriate to a forum like this. The proper response is to make a valid case for your position if criticized.
Perhaps there is an evangelical feel to the site and forum, but remember it addresses only those who drop by and are interested in discussing the questions involved. The doors are open.
I will say a valid criticism would be that as a group we can be dismissive and condescending. Humility and mutual submission is difficult to maintain when emotions are high, which is why scripture says so much about it, I suppose. Hopefully, we can all have open ears when others are speaking, and do our best to understand their position, especially when we disagree, and ask questions in good faith to clarify the position taken.


(Mark D.) #54

As a non Christian I just find YEC intellectually lacking. I feel the same way about biblical inerrancy, especially when paired with a dogmatic insistence on literal interpretation. It isn’t my business and I’m fine with people going with what they believe since that is what I prefer to do as well.

But I’m rooting for more Christians to adopt intellectually defensible beliefs such as this site promotes. I also root for atheists to question the glib assumption that god belief is just superstition. My lot has a tendency to turn materialism in on themselves, turning a blind eye to the gifts that can come to an open heart. But believers who are convinced this world is just a transition to a better world are at risk of turning a blind eye on the possibilities which can come to an open mind. Why not keep both our hearts and our minds open?


(Darek Barefoot) #62

Biologos “evangelizes” evolution by presenting convincing evidence in depth, not by accusing their opponents of abandoning the faith. There are YECs who believe that the earth is fixed in space and the sun and all other heavenly bodies orbit it. There are YECs who believe that modern medicine should be avoided in favor of faith healing alone. Is that true of all, or even most, of them? Of course not. That’s why generalizations should be avoided.


#63

Sure, and I think Geocentrism is silly, and ideally Christians wouldn’t believe in it. (I’m not a YEC, but it’s a reasonable position honestly. It shows a high view of the authority of Scripture) That said, we know nobody will be damned for believing in a Young Earth. Why then evangelize evolution to them? If somebody like Todd Wood knows the evidence for evolution but believes in a natural reading of Scripture over it, why change his mind when there are so many unbelievers?

I honestly don’t know if it’s useful to teach Creationists to believe in evolution when work could be done to get atheists to believe in God. Especially when believing in Creation is in no way a salvation issue. Again, showing that Christianity can accommodate an Old Earth is one thing, but trying to make people believe in it seems counterproductive.


(George Brooks) #64

@HmanTheChicken,

The pro-BioLogos folks here are ALREADY Evolutionists. I think you are barking up the wrong tree.


(Phil) #65

I think you make a good point, and agree with much you are saying. But. The problem with getting many non-believers to believe in God is that they see many of the vocal YEC folks and consider them deluded and thus reject the gospel message by association. Certainly not everywhere and by everyone, but commonly in those circles that accept mainstream science. The message must be then made that they should consider Christianity in spite of the YEC position, and it is an uphill battle.


(George Brooks) #66

@HmanTheChicken

We evangelize for two reasons:

  1. The new generations of zealous Creationists are increasingly disillusioned by the extremes that Creationists go to attack science… thus lose their faith in the process; and

  2. The same Creationist zeal seems to compel these camps of Christians to impose their religious perceptions on the whole country - - fueling opposition to Climate Change mitigations and other toxic social movements.


(Mark D.) #67

YEC may well contribute to the number of unbelievers. I know plenty of atheists who think all protestants are YECs. I’m always pointing out that YEC positions are low lying fruit and that arguments against it do not apply across the board.


(Chris Falter) #68

Hi George,

You know we all love you here on the forum…but maybe you should use the first person singular rather than the first person plural. :slight_smile:

Grace and peace,
Chris


(Jacob) #69

It’s not only about evolution. YEC denies just about everything we know about physics, geology, and astronomy. I don’t know how many times I have heard a YECer dismiss something in science as “just guessing.” This overall attitude is very damaging to the church’s witness.