What Changed with Sin?

Faith & Science Conversation
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@gbrooks9

Since when?

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@Relates

Roger, obviously I’m not talking about the afterlife.

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@gbrooks9

Why not?

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@Relates,

Why not? Because we were discussing the normal bounds of mortality … rather than confuse matters.

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@gbrooks9
Aren’t we talking about the Bible and the things of the Spirit?

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@Relates,

Roger… I think you are wandering in the dark with your own rhetoric. Let’s try this again. This is what I posted quite a while ago before you entered on your path of sophism:

Perhaps it is easier to see the PRIMORDIAL difference between God and Adam when you reflect on Abraham’s words: To acknowledge the vast difference between humans and the divine, Abraham used these words:

"Let me take it upon myself to speak to the Lord,” he said, “I who am but dust and ashes”
(Genesis 18:27).

These compositional materials did not suddenly manifest at the transgression. Adam was made of dust/ashes from the very beginning. Presumably this is why God had the Tree of Life in Eden - - to keep the flimsy fabric of human flesh alive for all time.

The transgression compelled to God to evict Adam and Eve … if for only one reason: to keep the humans from
eating from the Tree of Life and becoming as gods !

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@gbrooks9

You evict people when they don’t pay the rent.

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Without a doubt, Roger.

But the question is what kind of tenants were Adam and Eve prior to the eviction?

The fact they were welcome to eat from the Tree of Life tells us that DESPITE their intended perfection… they still had a normal mortality … without the tree of life … they would have died just like all the other normal, natural living things…

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@gbrooks9

The issue is Life not life. They broke the terms of their lease, so they were evicted.

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I don’t think you know what the title of this thread means … “What changed with Sin?”

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Just saw this post at On Script by @Bethany.Sollereder regarding “God, Evolution, and Animal Suffering.” I think many of us will appreciate this. @aarceng as well as I

Bethany Sollereder – God, Evolution, and Animal Suffering | OnScript

Biologos has a podcast with her, too. Bethany Sollereder | Lion Tennis in Heaven - Podcast-episodes - BioLogos

I thought Chris’s post regarding CMI’s Shaun Doyle’s concern about what is “good” was very insightful. This may help foster conversation. Thanks.

Thanks for writing in. This cartoon so badly misrepresents biblical creationists that it’s hardly worth a refutation.

To give just one example: he has the YEC citing Romans 5:12 as evidence there was no animal death before the Fall, and then cites one of our articles as an example of this argument: https://creation.com/the-carnivorous-nature-and-suffering-of-animals . The problem? You won’t find a single reference to Romans 5:12 in the entire article! The article makes the case for no carnivory before the Fall from Romans 8:18-23 (on which, see Cosmic and universal death from Adam's fall) and Genesis 1:29-30. And the article deals with verses like Psalm 104:21, 24 that refer to animal carnivory as God-given (basically, these passages were written in a post-Fall perspective, and God still provides for his creatures, even through carnivory). The article doesn’t even focus on animal death (on which please see Pre-fall animal death; that issue is a little more complicated than it might at first seem) but on animal suffering and carnivory .

The rest of it is standard nonsense from the likes of Hugh Ross that we’ve dealt with many times on creation.com. We even have a book that deals with practically all these polemical failures: Refuting Compromise .

Kind regards,

Shaun Doyle