What are your thoughts on war?

Faith & Science Conversation
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So I guess an other question would be is did it seem God was on anyone’s side or was it it those who had the best weapons and the most soldiers?

Like do you think God was blessing America and granting soldiers miracles in order to win against Germany and Japan? Or was God with the Germans who won various skirmishes? Was God helping all equally or was he blatantly absent from seemingly encouraging or preventing anything?

And also just to make sure I am not misrepresenting myself as a pacifist. I’m not. I’m actually very comfortable and ok with using violence, including murder or even breaking fingers one at a time if I think that is going to be what works out best for me. Maybe I’ve mentioned it publicly or maybe not. I’m not sure with this website. But twice in my life I’ve used a bit of nasty violence to protect myself. Once was as a teen when the state of Alabama was trying to take some of my families land along a river. I strongly opposed it. They were going to take it regardless to widen the rider by 40 feet and deeper it by 10 for boats to park in. Was not even for them to fish in or anything. It was so boats could come in from the Gulf of Mexico and go up park there ships. A surveyor was out in the land they were cutting paths in the trees. They did not have to leave. Cops was there escorting them. So I went about 400 feet up ahead the path they were going and hid a bear trap. Something like the Belisle #330 I believe. The guy did step in it and it did break his leg. I got in trouble. Went to court and so on. Other people along the river and farms did similar things. Including multiple tractors same vehicles being burned down, shots fired. Houses were broken into and families attacked. There are still random articles online from it. I was a teen. But ultimately it lead to them leaving. Once about 6 years ago a man with the navy came by each house to bring this up again and was basically told by every including me we would fight it. They received death threats. Lots of people with guns stood in the road. They left and never came back. Imagine that will always be the response.

As a young adult with my now ex wife when I was 20 and in the army I went on vacation to Miami. A car stopped in front of me suddenly and another came up from behind really close. Two guys hoped out and was coming up to our windows with guns and I got out and shot one guy in the stomach and fired over the car at the other guy shooting at him as he fled and then I shot into the car in front of my and they sped off. I dragged the guy I shot off the road and drove off. About 30 minutes later I called the cops and told them what happened and that I left because I felt it was gang violence and I did not want to remain in that area. I ended up testifying on the phone against the guy and not really sure what happened. I know he went to jail but not sure for how long or anything.

So I am perfectly fine with using lethal force to protect myself. I would use lethal force to protect my pets if someone broke into my home. I would use lethal force against a man, woman or minor if it was necessary. If I could keep them alive I would. If they died I would know I did something I’m ok doing.

But what I would not do is pretend I only had those choices. That I was not forced to make any particular decision but that I choose to. I think the issue many have is they try to frame stuff as if they are not accountable. Like they had no choice and I disagree.

Now even though I’m comfortable with knowing there are situations where I will choose violence I prefer not too. I can get punched, I can get robbed and so on and I’ll most likely not choose lethal force. I probably won’t even try to fight. I’ve put in more and more work to make nonviolence my natural reaction because the reality is if left unchecked that is my first response. I have broken many arms and legs in life from a teenager into adulthood. Just three years ago someone tried to punch me and I grabbed their arm and placed them into a wrist lock and slid it into an elbow lock and with one movement broke both. I regretted it afterwards even though I was legally justified.

So overtime what I’ve tried to do instead of think about how Jesus was willing to die. I know I will try to kill someone before I let them kill me most likely. But I also know in most cases there are many other choices.

A 70 year old woman just recently attacked a 17yo and 20yo at their place of work. The 20 yo fought back and the old lady died. A few years ago I would have said it’s justifiable. You attack someone and you risk being attacked back with equal or greater force.

Nowdays I think we should be willing to take some pain and mistreatment for the sake of choosing or choosing non violence. I think that if everyone tried we could truly remake this world. That when we have a negative interaction, when we think back to it we should fantasize about choosing non violence.

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I do not know about divine intention, but through history having the best weapons and the most soldiers has proven quite effective in the slaughter of populations standing in the path of imperial aggression. As Athens warned Melos, The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

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You know about the Japanese internment camps, right?

It’s not “Kinda sad.” It’s reprehensible.

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Yes it was, we didn’t apply whatever laws apply uniformly to both those of Japanese descent and German descent. Of course we shouldn’t have immediately assumed that those descended from those countries would need to be prevented from supporting those countries against us. I know two families of Japanese descent from the Bay Area who where put in concentration camps who lost their businesses and homes, but there were very many others. Very similar to what the Nazis did to Jewish families in Germany. Not one of our better moments as a country.

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Agreed. FDR did a lot of good things and did get our country out of its worst hour, but he also did a lot of really horrible things, such as signing that executive order.

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Like much of Black history in the U.S., so little of the history of Japanese (and other) Americans has been taught at all, and then taught poorly, whitewashed.

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Holy Post Media recently hosted Sharon McMahon, and she had good advice for perspectives on how American History is taught. Summarized: We need to avoid the tendency on the right that whitewashes American history (and presents or makes up only the bits it wants), but also avoid the extreme tendency on the left of demonizing all of American history as if there were no good to be found there either. If, for example, one can’t acknowledge both that George Washington was an extremely influential and formative figure of some of the values cherished about our republic today without also simultaneously acknowledging that he was someone who unjustly enslaved many people, then you’re denying at least some essential part of good education.

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Jefferson is my favorite example. Repeatedly I’ve read heavy condemnations of the man as a hypocrite for writing the Declaration of Independence while “stubbornly” staying a slave owner. It totally ignores the reality that many of the slaves he owned were bound with the land and there was no legal way to free them; if he’d done so any land owner could have just claimed them, and that if he’d freed any of the ones he legally could have they would have ended up re-enslaved if they had no means of support – it’s a complaint based on a total lack of understanding of the slave culture. It also ignores the fact that Jefferson repeatedly tried to figure out how to provide any slaves he could free with an economic start that would have let them remain free.

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Good thoughts, @BuffaloMax17 . I appreciate my pacifist brothers when they say it would be better to be hurt than to hurt someone else. I also realize that harming someone else for a goal seems like a burden too great to bear. On the other hand, I know that history is full of folks who have died if they do not put up a physical resistance–and that includes the innocent children and others that we could protect.

Russel Moore made a good commentary about what war can do to us (he was not specifically targeting the Iran war in a political way, but used it as an example).

extension://hdppkjifljbdpckfajcmlblbchhledln/bcr.html?bcr=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azAxCSuL4i0

With boys at 18 and 15 years of age (one just got his Selective Service card), I do fear.

It really comes home to me. Good questions, and good thoughts.

Thank you.

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War happens. It is an example of the evilness of man, not the war itself but the reasons why wars occur.

Not everyone serves but those that did voluntarily were after Viet Nam and the choice produced a better quality military. Those of you who did not serve should be grateful for those who did but willing to save God and country as well in a non military role.

Those that chose in most cases did so because of love of country or a call to duty. Their service in my view compares equally to Christian service, i.e., putting something else above one’s own self interest.

Love the Lord and love your county is my advice and serve both in some capacity.

America is not a Christian nation but from the beginning it seems to have had the guiding hand of Divine providence.

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Never desirable.

Regrettable when necessary.

Unforgivable when selected without dread need.

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War is how true change occurs in our society. Debates rarely ever convince anyone to change their mind, if ever. And Governments certainly know that words never work quite so well as bombs and bullets do…

Violence rules all. Governments use it to maintain control. Police use it to maintain control. And God uses it to maintain control.

The message of history is: If you don’t comply, you gotta die.

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Jesus finally adds himself on the latter part of that ledger. Though not without some shrewdness along the way. And revealing to all that those who give in to Satan’s age-old temptations to grab up power… they’re already defeated where it most counts.

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When I was in the army they had 300 people in basic fill out why they joined. There was about 8 choices to chose from. Over 90% picked reasons related to career security, escaping their life and getting a GI bill.

That links mentions 9% joined solely for love of country. 40 something percent joined for GI bill , medical or job security. 37% said a mixture but when pressed, job security and GI bill took precedence over patriotism.

So close to 90% joined primarily if not solely for financial hopes and as mentioned, in the war on terror, for every soldier who died oversees 4x as many came back home from war and eventually committed suicide. As far as Americans go anyways. Many are just poor enough they are willing to risk their life and others lives for the hope of reaching lower middle class.

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That is quite unfortunate. Personally, I think that a large domestic organization similar to those of the New Deal to conduct major projects across the country would be a good alternative to serving in the military. For one, many parks and pools we have here in Nebraska were actually created by the Public Works projects of the New Deal; meaning, had it not been for good ol’ FDR (despite his flaws), Nebraska would likely be a bit more bland than it is now :joy:.

I know a lot of areas would benefit from just a major overall of infrastructure and other buildings. Personally, the United States shouldn’t spend so much on the military but rather have a plan to rapidly prepare for it; after all, we went from a military smaller than the Netherlands to the worlds premier fighting machine in the span of a few years in World War II.

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That parallels my observations in youth I know who join, but it seems several I know have somewhat different goals. One wants to fly helicopters, one seems to be in it for the adventure, but as stated several see it as a form of upward mobility. If you ask any of them if they are joining the armed forces so they can kill people to promote their country’s interests, few would say they were, even though bottom line, that is the job.

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My niece-in-law served two years in the Peace Corps in Nigeria, and still speaks of her service with fond memories.

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What is it like in Nigeria? From what I can tell, Nigeria seems like one of the few states that seems to be doing well after the centuries of prolonged European occupation (alongside countries like South Africa). I frequently hear about Nigeria being a contender for major future development.

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I couldn’t tell you, but my niece-in-law posted this: https://www.facebook.com/reel/967352499517088

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Very heartfelt! I wish we devoted more of our federal budget to things like this than spending more on our military than the next twenty countries combined :sob:.

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