Yes, I am not asking for blind faith in anything, just to use the Socratic method to seriously look at the question to see if there are any blindspots in your own belief in Atheism. A blind belief in Atheism is as illogical as a blind belief in Theism.
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I’ve posed this question to a different poster here, but I think it’s relevant here as well. In my view, Atheism is really the null hypothesis. Do you think the null hypothesis is a valid hypothesis? If not, why not? If yes, how is Atheism different from the null hypothesis?
Hello Vlad,
I don’t think most believers, here or elsewhere, doubt much God’s existence, though some may have before coming to Christ. But sometimes someone may doubt that God is the God of the bible, meaning that He cares for them and is answering their prayers, as some have said.
Atheism is also untestable, so it’s a matter of where we put our faith.
Well, let me challenge you on this. And I’ll borrow from Marshall Brain here. Lets imagine that I claimed aldkfajdlfkajdf exists. You can not disprove aldkfajdlfkajdf’s existence any more than I can prove their existence. Does that mean both of our positions are equally valid?
I have just made up aldkfajdlfkajdf out of the blue. And now, their existence suddenly becomes as plausible as their non-existence?
That’s exactly what I am trying to do. All I am doing is highlighting the differences in worldview to help understand where each person is coming from and how they approach these questions.
Brilliant scientists have explained why they believe in God. Dr. Francis Collins wrote a great entitled Faith and the Human Genome, and even as an atheist I highly recommend other atheists to read it. What Collins describes is a personal conversion, and not a logical step by step arrival at a belief in God. That’s fine. Collins has a personal belief based on his experiences and I have no need to say that he is wrong.
Does a belief in God have to be logical? Of course not. Is the love I feel for my family and friends logical? No!! Perhaps the big mistake is in trying to contain the whole debate within the rules of logic.
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If we are talking science or logic, then the null hypothesis is preferred. However, not everything is science and logic. As skeptics, we may prefer a more verifiable and empirically based method for acquiring knowledge, but that doesn’t mean everyone has to use the same method.
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This is a terrible way to argue against atheism! The percentage of scientsts who don’t beileve in God is higher than in the general public. And as for the best scientsts, in the National Academy of scientsts, something like 93% are atheists.
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Boy if that looks like mud slinging to you, you must not get out much.
For the reason @beaglelady gave, I don’t think that’s going to be persuasive.
A better question to ask, in my opinion, is why has belief in God been so compelling to so many people nearly everywhere for as far back as we can investigate? Now there are other reasons this could be true than the literal truth of the bible or of any other tradition’s understanding of God. But I think you are justified to call any answer glib that waves it away as mistaken, dark-ages thinking which we should be eager to shed. I would recommend putting your energy into that question. Doesn’t mean everyone will take it seriously either of course just because I do.
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I started this comment with the father of logic, Socrates and his belief in God, for which he gave his life. For Socrates God and the gods was logical. For the early Christian Greek biblical scholars, it was also logical. For me, as an engineer, it is completely logical. I am just asking to look at Albert Einstein and to not lightly disregard his belief.
I am not arguing for or against anything. I am asking both sides to learn to respect each other and to be curious as Socrates taught.
Oh really? You were putting it forth as an argument for belief, not realizing that it makes a stronger argument for atheism.
I don’t think you can get to God via logic. Do you have a particular god in mind? And what do you think Albert Einstein’s belief was?
Are you sure?
Here are a few Einstein quotes:
“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”
“I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type of which we are conscious in ourselves. An individual who should survive his physical death is also beyond my comprehension, nor do I wish it otherwise; such notions are for the fears or absurd egoism of feeble souls. Enough for me the mystery of the eternity of life, and the inkling of the marvellous structure of reality, together with the single-hearted endeavour to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the reason that manifests itself in nature.”
"For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions . . . and the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people.”
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I have heard all of these claims before, but I have been rather unimpressed when the actual logic is presented.
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Yes, these are all his quotes that fully agree wilt. He is commenting on the religious claims about God which do not fit in his worldview. What I quoted from Einstein is who belief in the nobility of nature and that God should reflect this character.
What are your own religious beliefs?
Einstein was a brilliant scientst and wonderful in other ways, but he was a notorious skirt-chaser and had numerous extra-marital affairs.
I share the beliefs of the founders of science and philosophy. The belief that Jesus is the Logos and the Eros incarnated as human. That He came to defeat Lucifer release his grasp on the fallen, allowing us to return to Heaven.
I would be careful of spreading rumors about any contributor to society, knowing how easy it is to discredit a lifetime of honorable work with baseless accusations. This is what happened to Solomon, Socrates and Jesus. Let their work stand on its own merits.
You’re right that these aren’t equally valid. It’s Russell’s Teapot that we can’t disprove as well, but on the other hand, have no compelling reason to believe it is real.
So if aldkfajdlfkajdf had been a major player in human history for the last dozens of centuries inspiring lots of [at least mostly] good stuff, then she would have a place on the table of consideration along with lots of other major and not-so-major (but real) religions. The atheist then replies: if “impact” is the plausibility test to pass, then why Christianity over lots of other major (but more importantly very real) religions? That’s a good question, but not one that has remained unanswered. I certainly don’t claim to have investigated impartially what every major religion has on offer. But to the extent that I have, and to the extent that I also have delved into Christianity, I’m glad to hold onto it. Other religions also have lots of good and true wisdom on offer as well - I don’t doubt that for a moment.
You’ll have to give us a pronunciation guide for aldkfajdlfkajdf. I’m guessing she’s a god of some Scandinavian or maybe Czech tongue twisters!
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Any attempted damage control for Solomon may be coming a bit late at this point, since it is … well … written into the Bible.
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There was science and philosophy before the incarnation. Jesus is the Logos. What’s the Eros?
Not baseless at all. A long time ago I went to an exhibition celebrating Einstein at the American Museum of Natural History in Manhattan. It included pictures, letters, other documents. Most of the exhibition was on his brilliant accomplishments and kind deeds (including providing lodging for opera great Marian Anderson when everyone else spurned her because of her race). But we also learned about his personal life and his numerous affairs. It even displayed some of his love letters. This is not a secret! (David, too, had illicit affairs.)