Was there death before the Fall?

That’s because neither theory is a scientific proposition. You keep wanting to bring all these things into the scientific court for adjudication there. And that is appropriate if it is mere biological evolution in question. But the theisms (or a-theisms) that may be held by any persons studying science are not themselves scientific claims - or I should say that most of us here are not attempting to advance them as such.

Exactly right.

It would indeed be a bizarre revision if such a thing could be done. That is what IDists are hoping to provide. But most of us here don’t think that science, within the use of its historically effective tools, could hope to weigh in on such things. And if it did - it almost certainly wouldn’t be the classically Christian ground of all being (God) that was contained within the microscope’s lens or the mathematical model.

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Huh? Where? Where did I say anything of that sort? Didn’t say it. Don’t think it either. The relationship with God is important for different reasons. I oppose the notion that belief in God is any kind of panacea for human problems, or that it is even universally beneficial to all people (pointing out that a belief in God can even be a part of a psychopathology in some people). And I certainly do not credit the idea that no religious relationship with God must result in evil.

So let that question in your comment be the first you should have asked – two separate questions though. Then I will alter your other questions to something relevant to what I said and actually believe – adding a couple more for good measure.

Why is there suffering in the world?

We know for a fact from evolution that suffering is a necessary and unavoidable part of life itself. There would be no life or the development of life without suffering. Life is not some woo woo magical stuff added to things in order to animate them. Life is a process of self-organization responding to stimulation from the environment (pretty much because it is experienced as suffering to be avoided or alleviated).

Why is there evil in the world?

The short answer is self-destructive habits. By bringing the human mind to life God gave us far more power in the world than any other creature. That includes the power of imagination which can indulge in all kinds of perversities contrary to the nature of life itself. We are far from isolated existences and self-destructive behavior inevitably brings destruction to others as well.

What were the changes in the homo sapiens to human because of this communication from God?

It was the beginning of human civilization as they used their new found imagination to live in vastly different ways than homo sapiens have lived for millions of years previously.

What were the changes in the homo sapiens to human because of the self-destructive habits from Adam and Eve?

That story is told in the Bible: the description “evil continuously” means life in this earliest human civilization would best be described as hell on earth. Thank God it was wiped out by a flood before it spread over the earth. Much from Adam and Eve did spread over the earth but without a unified culture and civilization the necessity of competition with each other naturally limited the depravity which they could sink to and expect to survive.

I do not credit the claim that the Sentinelese have had no contact with others for 55000 years, but that is no reason to avoid the question: What would happen with a group of homo sapiens who had no communication with God and no interaction with others experiencing this alteration starting with Adam and Eve?

The way of life of our ancestors experienced very little change for over a million years, and without any contact with others, I would expect there to be very little change over a mere 55,000 years added to that.

Did something happen to man’s relationship with God because of Adam and Eve?

Yes, both good and bad. God adopted Adam and Eve as His children, which means this was the beginning of a relationship with God via human communication where God could teach them new ideas. But the bad habit of blaming others for their mistakes transformed God from their greatest teacher to the greatest scapegoat, and thus for their own good it was necessary for God to terminate such a close relationship and largely remove Himself from their life. They had to learn that they simply couldn’t survive without taking responsibility for their own life.

Are the religious aspects of the above explanation measurable or demonstrable in any way?

No. There are certainly no ways to identify where ideas may have come from. Did people just think them up for themselves and only imagine that a god gave such ideas to them? There is no way to prove this one way or another. The things of religion are completely subjective. But those who imagine that they can live life in a completely objective way are delusional. It is not possible.

It doesn’t need to be. Mere rationality is sufficient; sufficient to say that science will never find what isn’t there. Only desire, longing, yearning is greater than rationality.

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