Yes, that would be more controversial. This conversation is from a while ago, but when I used “make mistakes” I meant it in the sense of “be momentarily mistaken because of limited knowledge or limited human perception” not “do something wrong.” I personally don’t see how someone who is fully human could live life and never call someone the wrong name, or count something wrong the first time and have to correct it, or do a double-take because they thought they saw something that was not actually there. Those are just the kind of things that happen when you have a human brain, which Jesus had. I don’t think it impinges on his divinity to acknowledge his full humanity and the limitations of being bound to a human body.
2 Likes
I guess I’d make two points:
-
It seems that the type of mistake we’re talking about is a huge theological one. The age of the earth is a theologically important question, as is a historical Adam and Eve. If Jesus was wrong about that, it would be hugely problematic under any definition of Him having a divine nature.
-
I don’t know if it’s the case that error is inherent to being human. It seems like being human involves being physically vulnerable and capable of disease, but making errors does not seem to be in that category.
Why? The Bible never establishes the actual age of the earth.
I must have missed it. When did Jesus refer to Adam? Jesus only quoted from Genesis once and that was in reference to marriage not the existence of Adam and Eve.
2 Likes
Why? The Bible never establishes the actual age of the earth.
No, but it seems like if Jesus believed erroneously that there was no death before the Fall, that would kind of be a big problem.
I must have missed it. When did Jesus refer to Adam? Jesus only quoted from Genesis once and that was in reference to marriage not the existence of Adam and Eve.
Well right, He quoted about how God made humans male and female, which is a reference to Adam and Eve.
I think sin and mistakes are different. Your idea as I understand it would seemingly have Jesus scoring a perfect score on the SAT (including the English essay) if it were put before him.
1 Like
Where does Jesus say there was no death before the fall? In fact where does it say there was no physical death before the fall?
No it is a reference to how God made all humans. In fact the reference to marriage didn’t completely apply to A&E, they had no father or mother to leave.
2 Likes
Jesus didn’t say that there was no death before the Fall. My point is that if He was wrong about that, it would be a defeater for Christianity. I don’t know if Jesus was a YEC, but if He was and YEC is wrong, that would mean Christianity is false. That is my view.
Maybe you’re right. I still don’t think there’s any reason to think Jesus didn’t believe in Adam and Eve.
Sorry I know this is old, but I stumbled on it when the thread same back up. I had to repost it, outstanding post!
Indeed God did make the heavens and earth in 6 days and rest/dwell on the 7th day. It’s a home story, it a house story. A temple/tabernacle story, not a tent story.
Made means, given purpose. In ANE, things didn’t exist until the had a purpose. The universe ‘house’ has been there for billions of years, but it didn’t become our universe or home until it was given purpose, and “made” in 7 days.
Just as the tabernacle was not a tabernacle until God filled it and dwelled in it. It was just some materials formed together with things inside. Was anyone allowed in the Holy of Holies willy nilly? How did it get built? It was just a room in a tent that any human could walk into at any time, unclean or not, with zero consequences. It became The Holy of Holies when God dwelled in it.
I’m not a scientific authority by any means, but all things reproduce using seed and ‘egg’ of sorts. Plants, animals, and humans. Very few thing self replicate other than cells?
Pretty much all of these have been done by humans (other than Jesus). Though it is never the humans doing these things, rather the Spirit in them doing them. Could it not have been the same with Jesus? Mat 28:18 “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. So to Jesus all authority was given to Peter, just some authority to cast out demons, to heal the sick, to walk on water (conditional authority) ect.
Is your faith seriously that weak? I would hope that was tantamount to saying “I swear on my mother’s grave”. So invoking a large out of our control event to add emphasis to a point, but is not something you actually mean.
The truths of God’s love becomes null and void because a scientific theory or interpretation of a creation event? I would urge you to put your faith in God, our Creator, Provider, Author of love, justice, mercy, grace, and righteousness. Not some interpretation of a few scriptures cherry picked that have no bearing His n how we are to live.
Jesus never seemed to really call out or care about YEC or EC, like when the harlot was about to be stoned, or the Pharisees challenged Him. More that we repent from our wicked ways, and trust Him.
I’m sorry, but if Christ as a person was fundamentally wrong on our origins I don’t know how one could believe Him to be God. We believe Him because He was wise and knew all and revealed the knowledge of God to the world.
And there is no reason to think that He did. In fact I have often said there is a reason Jesus never referred to Adam directly. Think of the difficulties we would have if Jesus had actually retold the story of A&E.
As George likes to say, Then Jesus would be able to drive a stick shift because He is all knowing? Or He could explain the nuclear fusion process that powers the sun? And yet Jesus Himself said He didn’t know the day He would return.
1 Like
I don’t think it would be difficult for somebody who believes in Adam and Eve 
It would be difficult if one takes a different view.
I think Jesus could drive a stick shift and explain nuclear fusion. 
He said He didn’t know the day or the hour to say that He would not give it.
Mark 13:32 But as for that day or hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Jesus says pretty clearly the He didn’t know the time, just like the angels in heaven don’t know the time.
1 Like
I’m going with what early interpreters said, it seems like that is what makes most sense.
How did the early interpreters shake out on the Jesus driving a stick shift question? 
1 Like
Haha I think St. John Chrysostom said it was literally true, Origen said it was an allegory
1 Like
Definitely stick shift. God even tells Moses and Aaron how to use a stick (see Exodus 4:5 ERV). But nowhere in either testament is an automatic ever mentioned. Not even once. So I think we can conclude that when the antichrist comes, she will definitely be driving an automatic.
I’m gonna go spread the word on Facebook now.
1 Like
This will be a great second volume to the Late Great Planet Earth.
1 Like
Mat 7:23 says “Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”
NOT “Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you who do not know your origins!”
Or mat 25:45 ““He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
NOT ““He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you falsely thought about your origins, you falsely preached about.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
1, because it might not be false.
2, because it doesn’t matter! There are so many more important things in this life!
God cares so much more about how we live, NOT what we believe, especially with regards to some things not even explicitly mentioned and up for interpretation. Do you know what is not up for interpretation? The two greatest commandments. Especially since there is a parable of a stranger caring for, vested in, the well being of another and meeting those needs above their own.
I am not saying Jesus was right or wrong about origins, I’m saying He spoke of it in passing so few times, yet focused on the important stuff and repeated that stuff over and over and over. The truths of that Man is what my faith is in, not some passing remarks. I would highly encourage you to put your faith in something unmovable, unshakable, unchangable as the truths of God, rather than some interpretations of man.
You are placing false dichotomies and stumbling blocks in front of too many! If your faith is in an interpretation of a few verses. When they end up being explained by science that contradicts those interpretations, who force those to either quit the faith or re-interprete verses.
I will gladly and boldly proclaim there is nothing anyone can discover or explain that will shake or change my faith in a loving, just, merciful, and righteous God who created all we know and provides for us daily. I can’t get even close to proclaiming I have the sole correct interpretations of the scriptures or know the mind of God.
Even if the Bible is ‘discovered’ to have been written by drunks and people hallucinating on drugs and trying to deceive the masses. The Spirit of God has revealed to me the truths that are in the scriptures, not words written by man. God is SO much more than words in a book, or testimonials written by men. He is personal, He speaks to our souls, reveals things to us, guides us, helps us to live the most abundant life.
1 Like
Then there’s the part about being the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and the resurrected son of God, firstborn of creation, seated at his right hand in glory to judge the living and the dead. I don’t know, but that seems more important to me than whatever he did or did not know during his earthly ministry. I believe in Jesus because his resurrection made him Lord of all, not because he was a wise teacher with special access to divine knowledge. Though he was that. But so were other prophets who were filled with God’s spirit. The wisdom and message from God is just by no means primary in my book.
2 Likes