Video trailer for the Crossway Theistic Evolution book

[jpm (Phil McCurdy)]

If that is your hypothesis, is the burden of proof not yours?

[AMWolfe (Andrew M. Wolfe)]

Um… you seem really fascinated with this particular topic.

I’m not a biologist, but I’m going to wager that there’s no research on this. Research takes time and costs money, so people usually only do it to test hypotheses that have a remote chance of being true. The scenario you’ve described is so far removed from what the data suggest that there’s no need to research it just to prove it wrong.

If you don’t know why, there are a lot of resources on this site that can help fill in some background information on general evolutionary theory so you understand why your scenario isn’t really plausible.

[r_speir]

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[gbrooks9 (George Brooks)]

@r_speir

Now let’s discuss some Biologos/EC failures. Point me to research where you have definitively eliminated the abomination of beastiality as the probable cause for human-ape genome similarities. Show me unequivocally how you know the human is a descendant of the apes and not visa versa - the beasts being rather a gross product of some long removed tribal sexual interaction with a now-extinct lower life form. Prove that your view is the better one.

@r_speir,

Didn’t you read in the bible that animal kinds are represented by those populations that can produce successive generations.

Are you suggesting that Humans and Non-Human apes are, actually, the same Kind?

Considering the general distastefulness of your beastiality hypotheses, when can we expect the YEC scientists to explore genetic compatibilities in test tubes of gametes and so forth.

Think of how famous they would be for performing experiments on this theme?!

[pevaquark (Matthew Pevarnik)]

@r_speir

The burden is on those making the grand claims like evolution is beyond a reasonable doubt and evolution best explains the genetic evidence.

Let’s say one of the natural mechanisms is mutations + recombination + others acted upon by environmental factors. We can trace these changing between generations and even trace specific genes between species.

Note: the follow is not my personal view, but I think generally sums up how most (at least non Christian and some Christian) scientists view creationism–
You claim: that an invisible being comes in and interacts via an unknown mechanism doing god knows what and you are demanding that the burden of proof rests on who now?

Note: back to me. I think this blogger sums up the problem with any anti-evolution teachings. Basically, they fail to provide a real alternate explanation outside of ‘oogity-boogity:’

Intelligent Design Has a Mechanism

Here’s a little extra that Nature put together:
https://www.nature.com/nature/newspdf/evolutiongems.pdf

[Christy (Christy Hemphill)]

@r_speir

Now let’s discuss some Biologos/EC failures. Point me to research where you have definitively eliminated the abomination of beastiality as the probable cause for human-ape genome similarities. Show me unequivocally how you know the human is a descendant of the apes and not visa versa - the beasts being rather a gross product of some long removed tribal sexual interaction with a now-extinct lower life form. Prove that your view is the better one.

Underlying this question is the assumption that there are defined boundaries between species as they are evolving. There aren’t. And humans did not mate with their ape-like ancestors to produce humans with genetic similarities to apes. You can’t mate with your ancestors, just your contemporaries. Within a population, all the individuals would be close enough genetically that it would not be a lower form mating with a higher form. This scenario you have imagined doesn’t make any sense.

[glipsnort (Steve Schaffner)]

@r_speir

Point me to research where you have definitively eliminated the abomination of beastiality as the probable cause for human-ape genome similarities.

The comparison of the human and chimpanzee genomes. If similarity with chimpanzees resulted from hybridization, it would be confined to the parts of the genome acquired from said beast. It isn’t. Instead, the similarity is present everywhere. Your idea is impossible. [quote=“r_speir, post:20, topic:37306”]
Show me unequivocally how you know the human is a descendant of the apes and not visa versa
[/quote]
This challenge makes no sense in an evolutionary context. Humans and great apes are equally descended from a common ancestor.

[r_speir]

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[pevaquark (Matthew Pevarnik)]

@r_speir

Proposal: Unlike the genetic limitations of the sexual union of a normal man and beast, if this wicked pre-Flood offspring were to join sexually with beasts, the result may have been the very image of man in complete rebellion against God – apes, chimps, bonobos, in near-human genetic make-up and appearance. Not our ancestors by any stretch, but rather, the ugly offspring and descendants of our total human depravity.

[T_aquaticus]

@r_speir

I have given you ample biblical context for this proposal, unlike evolution, for which there is not even a biblical whisper. If you do not sufficiently eliminate this proposal as a viable explanation for the human-ape genome similarity, you will be in denial of its threat to you. You will have been remiss in your duties to your party line

Your proposal is eliminated by the fact that all portions of the human genome are similar to chimps and other apes. The type of hybridization you are talking about would produce portions of the human genome that are like chimps and others that are not.

[AMWolfe (Andrew M. Wolfe)]

Great point! Unfortunately, @glipsnort already explained this and was still ruled as being in denial…

[beaglelady]

@r_speir

Proposal: Unlike the genetic limitations of the sexual union of a normal man and beast, if this wicked pre-Flood offspring were to join sexually with beasts, the result may have been the very image of man in complete rebellion against God – apes, chimps, bonobos, in near-human genetic make-up and appearance. Not our ancestors by any stretch, but rather, the ugly offspring and descendants of our total human depravity.

It’s even worse these days. Why, Andy Serkis was transformed into a chimpanzee!

[glipsnort (Steve Schaffner)]

@r_speir

If you do not sufficiently eliminate this proposal as a viable explanation for the human-ape genome similarity, you will be in denial of its threat to you.

I already eliminated your proposal. Why are you still offering it when it could not possibly be correct?

[r_speir]

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[glipsnort (Steve Schaffner)]

@r_speir

Correct, after multiple generations in exactly the proportions we see today, just as your theory states

For all portions of the genome to show the similarity, the mixing would have had to happen many thousands of generations ago.

[AMWolfe (Andrew M. Wolfe)]

That is really a high koala-tee meme…
I’m glad you clipped us that from wherever you found it!

[r_speir]

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[glipsnort (Steve Schaffner)]

@r_speir

Not for the Nephilim. My proposal is just getting started. What your modern science has done is to come into the middle of a foiled attempt by a pre-Flood super-race to overthrow God, just as their grandson Nimrod tried to do, of whom it was said by God himself, “And nothing shall be impossible to them.” The Nephilim were interbreeding with animals at every new generational level, interjecting more and more of their DNA, to build a literal hoard of man-beasts to follow them into a direct confrontation with God and his heavenly hoard. A true planet of the apes. For almost a millennium the Nephilim collectively worked and built this project, until the Flood overflowed them. Where your science is erroneously concluding a common human-ape ancestor, the real history tells of a grand experiment of a super-race of men bent on the overthrow God.

You live in a very strange world, one that little resembles the one the rest of us live in.

[beaglelady]

@glipsnort

You live in a very strange world, one that little resembles the one the rest of us live in.

But you must admit it’s very colorful.

[cwhenderson (Curtis Henderson)]

@r_speir

Not for the Nephilim. My proposal is just getting started. What your modern science has done is to come into the middle of a foiled attempt by a pre-Flood super-race to overthrow God, just as their grandson Nimrod tried to do, of whom it was said by God himself, “And nothing shall be impossible to them.” The Nephilim were interbreeding with animals at every new generational level, interjecting more and more of their DNA, to build a literal hoard of man-beasts to follow them into a direct confrontation with God and his heavenly hoard. A true planet of the apes. For almost a millennium the Nephilim collectively worked and built this project, until the Flood overflowed them. Where your science is erroneously concluding a common human-ape ancestor, the real history tells of a grand experiment of a super-race of men bent on the overthrow God.

What are you basing this on? It certainly isn’t the Bible.