Am I wrong to point out that this is in the general discussion section? Not scientific evidence or biblical interpretation?
I thought all forums have a “lounge” area or “water cooler” to discuss what you want. Though I understand specific topics like politics are explicitly not allowed. But I thought “general discussion” could discuss anything. Though I understand sports isn’t very intellectual and and this is more of a intellectual people here.
I enjoy coming here to learn, but it is also a breath of fresh air to see mostly open minded respectful people. I see it as a place to debate and learn how others view my beliefs and perhaps change my perspective on things. A intellectual workout of sorts.
Is this a problem with religion, or could you be misunderstanding a religion?
What @BoltzmannBrain said. I would just add, and who deserves all worship, and created us to worship Him too, and to love Him, which loving Him is worshiping Him.
I don’t think so. I don’t see anywhere in scripture that says this. I think this is a common caricature of who God is, though there is no scriptural reason for this. I would say there is scripture that says the opposite actually. Can an omnipotent being create a rock so large that can’t move, or make a square circle? No. God can’t sin either. He is powerful (He created the whole universe, including the minute intricate details on a molecular level, and the insanely fine engineered the laws of constants). We can’t fathom His power or intelligence, so omnipotent is close enough, but semantics to say that no, technically not omnipotent.
Omnibenevolent, yes. But that requires us to define morals, so it is easier and I think more accurate to say He is holy.
Physical? I have non clue. The scriptural accounts go beyond what my mind can comprehend.
Are you searching for those above answers? Or are you searching to know God, who created you? I think if you earnestly seek to know your Creator, you will find Hoim, or He will find you, and make Him known to you.
Nope, He gave that choice to us.
The punishment/consequences of sin is death (spiritual death, which is separation from God). But Heaven is a neat place physically, but the greatest part is to be with our Creator, and praise Him for all He has done and continues to do. Hell is just a place for those that reject God, those who have sinned, those spiritually dead. Hell will physically suck, but the worst part is being separated from God. Which some believe (I am not convinced either way myself) that eternal damnation/separation from God, is Hell. We don’t rise again to live in the torture of hell, rather we cease to exist, we are eternally separated from our creator.
Unfortunately, all of us have sinned. None of us can be holy like God is. A single sin is missing the mark. The only way to live a holy life is to live a life dependent on God. The first time we try to do it, we will sin. We are rejecting God and how He created us to be dependent on Him. The good news is that God still loves us, despite us rejecting Him. So He sent His Son to live a perfect life (with His help, as Jesus was a man too, and needed God’s help to live a sinless life) and at the death of Jesus, sin (or the consequence/death of sin), was also conquered. Now if we believe in what Jesus did to atone for our sins, and want to be with God again, we can be, AKA heaven.
What sense would it make to go to heaven to be with God for eternity if you rejected God and didn’t want Him?
Your misguided understand of it might be incoherent, but the truth of it is quite logical.
I would say the same to you. There are many athiest on this board that I would have a beer with.
I also don’t think you are understanding the Bible correctly. God is honoring their choice to reject Him. It wasn’t like God said “Fine, you reject me, I condemn you to hell”. More of a "You rejected me, but I love you, I will send my only Son to earth, to show you how humanity was supposed to be and to provide a way for you to be with me again at the expense of my Son who I dearly love and it is understood in humans how much a good son is loved, but I love and value you so much.
This is hwy God told us not to try and make idols of Him. His image can’t be captured by human hands. It took a few thousand years of examples of continuous love and redemption despite us rejecting Him over and over, for Him to give us His Son which best represented Him.
I don’t know if incoherent is the word I would use though, rather incomprehensible, above our minds. Much like linear algebra and quantum physics is incomprehensible to a 3 year old, but not incoherent.
It is so unfortunate that you were lead this way. Sometime people resort to rejecting God and faith in Him, that God is responsible and the only one that can save, they try to save others with tier “logic” and try to scare them to heaven. But heaven is not a reward or something that can be earned. We can be reconciled to God now in this life, and the life to come. That is the gospel!
Eternal torute is one way to interpret it, and it might be correct that we do live in hell forever. But if that is true (and not the Anihilationist way) I still don’t think the torture part is the fire. Pain is good on earth, it informs us of impending doom if we don’t change something to stop the pain. If you are living forever, you would possibly get used to it, or it would be uncomfortable like hot day in the sun beating on you. The true torture in my opinion is going to be the lack of God. Everything that is good in this world comes form God, and apart from Him won’t be there. That is why there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Like a cornered rat fearing for his life gnashes his teeth, or a scared little boy with no parent crying. There will be great fear and anger and sadness apart from God, that is torture.
I am not convinced that those in hell might become so bitter and angry at God that they will never turn towards Him. People have such pride on earth, why not in hell? The eternal part might be on their own hands, rejecting their Creator for an eternity.
But there is no need to fear eternal separation from God. Jesus came so that we can know God again, be with God and worship Him as He intended for us as we live a “normal” life. Using the gifts He graciously blessed us with to give Him the glory and love our fellow man.
Something is evil because it tries to go against God. I think that is what Satan means, against or apposing God. There is evil going against God, and there is unholiness. Unholiness doens’t directly go against God in an antagonistic way, but it still isn’t God. God is holy, anything not holy is a sin. Sin is rejecting God’s rule over your life, but not necessarily attacking Him.
Every created thing was created to give God glory, that is how everything is designed. The stars do it by burning gas brightly, everything does it by doing what it was designed to do. Humans however were given a choice to do what it was designed to do, or not.We were given a special status of image bearers of God, to give Him more glory than the angels and heavens. He gave us a great power, that we failed to use properly. We gave that power to evil, and sinned.
If you cut off your head, will you die? Is that death a punishment? Or a consequence? Death is a consequence of sin more than a punishment. If you reject God, He allows you to reject Him and you are separated from Him. Completely just. He could have left it at that, but gave us such great mercy to give us another chance by His mercy, love and grace, AND to glorify Him as all things are intended to do. God was glorified in sending Jesus and Jesus dying for us, so that we can know Him and glorify Him as intended.
This was never God’s intent. But in the fallen world we live in, this is what occurred. We don’t know what happened to this adulterer though. Maybe killing them was a merciful way to save them? Maybe if they continued living that life, they would have brought others down, or maybe became more depraved themselves? All we do know is that, that is what God instructed, and we also know that God is loving, merciful, patient, and gracious. I don’t have all the answers as to who goes to heaven. But we see countless examples of God honoring those who want to know Him in faith. We are all sinners, I am no better than the adulterer. Perhapse the flawed adulterer still wanted a better life and wanted to know her Creator? Would God forgive her and allow her to be with Him? We know heaven and hell doens’t exist yet, heaven will come to the new earth after the second coming. Were these people given a chance to learn what Jesus did for them whilst floating around in sheol? I don’t know. But again, merciful and loving despite our flaws/sins, if we want to know Him, but before Jesus, they couldn’t. God provides ways out when there is none.
Thankfully now, there is a way, and Jesus is the Way.
But Jesus wasn’t disobeying the law. He wanted it enforced, and said I want you to throw a stone at her, and start with the one who hasn’t sinned. He then forgave her, and freed her from that punishment. Like He does for everyone!
But He isn’t judging you for disobeying His law, He is judging (honoring your choice) you for rejecting Him. The disobeying of His law is there to show how holy He is.
That is greatly unfortunate. Sin takes great advantage of us. When we try to take control (even with good intentions) it often turns out bad. IE. Pro-life crowd, intent is to save babies, but they often end up hating, yelling and shaming others.If we trusted God will protect or care for the unborn, we could educate in love. But this just goes to show that we cna’t do it, we are in need aof a savior who did it for us.
The path to a fulfilled life or living as we were created, isnt’ anything we can do, it is accepting what Jesus did for us.
So yes, if you reject Him here on earth in the temporary life, you are rejecting Him for an eternity, and rejecting and being separate from Him is hell, regardless of how you live your life.
But once receiving the grace of God and being reborn, one is compelled to live their lives the best they can to honor God because of love, not because it will save or condemn.
I don’t have any answers on this one…I would lean more towards our thoughts?
Yes, I believe this is the breath of God that Adam was given. A soul and knowledge of who God was, and Adam’s blessing of being an image bearer of God. Everyone who Adam communicated with was given that same status. This is why all have sinned “through” Adam, or was started with him.
I am not convinced anything else has a soul. Everything is created/designed with the purpose of giving God glory. All things that do as they are designed, give God glory. However humans were given a special status of an image bearer of God, and came with a soul that could reject God and die, yet the physical body still lived.
That is pretty interesting. That sounds like inception. They implanted that persons idea to get a drink and they didn’t know it.
I believe God chose Homo Sapiens to be His image bearers because of their intellect compared to the other animals. Some humans never develop their brains fully (like aborted babies). I don’t have answers to all questions, but again, I know that God is just, loving, merciful, and gracious.