Historical ones
Iām jumping in here having read and enjoyed much of this sprawling thread, but Iām going to give some general thoughts rather than trying to respond to specific statements.
First, to the degree that original sin is a universal leveler that starts all humans in the same category of being estranged from God, it sits uneasily with the idea that some group of humans (such as infants) is universally saved. If God welcomes all who die in infancy into the everlasting kingdom, then apparently original sin alone is not an impediment to salvation. And if one allows that God can wipe away the consequences of original sin for one group, then it becomes easy to extend that logic to other groups, such as the poor (thereās about equal biblical support for a wage of accountability and an age of accountability), or those who never heard, or those who heard a distorted message, or simply to all.
Second, I think there are more options than eternal punishment, annihilation, or universal reconciliation. Although I believe that hell means destruction, annihilation alone canāt fix the problems of inherent unfairness or arbitrariness in traditional conceptions of hell. The blind spot, I believe, is that Godās judgement has become equated with being condemned to hell, so saying that someone will face judgement after death seems like the same thing as saying they will face hell.
Instead, I think every person will face Godās real judgement after death, and many of the results will be surprising. In that judgement, all the inequities of life will be sorted out as only God can, and I believe all will receive opportunity to choose life with God or reject the only source of life. This present life matters in setting our disposition to that choice, but this life isnāt all that matters. I see that as good news for infants, the infirm, those whose lifeās circumstances misdirect their thoughts and actions, and for us all.
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I believe Jesus died for our sins, rose again, and is indeed offering forgiveness if we accept it. But I do not believe that we have to believe such things for salvation. As for whether our theology is correct or not, that is for God to say. Now whether our theology should be considered Christian or not is quite a different matter. That is just a matter of the definition of words and being honest. It would not be honest say you are a Christian when you believe Jesus didnāt rise again. That is pretty central to the religion of Christianity. But then there is a matter of what you think that means ā whether you believe Paul in 1 Cor 15 when he says this is a resurrection to a spiritual body and not to a natural physical body or whether you insist on defying all common sense and insist it means rising up out of the grave like some kind of zombie with the same atoms with which you were buried. I donāt think even being considered Christian depends on that sort of thing.
Thats pretty gnostic imo
??? ā¦ it is āgnosticā to believe what Paul says in the Bible ā¦ ??? OKā¦!!!
The Gnostics believed a lot of things. But I think they believe in a mental soul (which I do not believe in) rather than a spiritual body as Paul speaks of.
LOL, 
Wow, If I donāt agree with you I am ādefying all common senseā. Now I would love to apply that standard to everyone else, but that would be arrogant of me. While I certainly believe my views on theology and even on Genesis, I would never say that if people donāta agree with me, they have left all common sense. And you ignore what Jesus said of himselfāI am sure it wasnāt really meant to be taken literarlly because when things disagree with oneās theology that is the normal route one takes to avoid what Scripture actually says.
We have been round about our different views of the resurrection and all I will say is that spirits donāt eat fish and honeycomb, nor do their hands have solidity.Luke 24:38-43 Jesus speaking:
Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Lk 24:38ā43). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
Jesus made 2 claims. 1. Spirits donāt have flesh and bone and 2. He had flesh and bone.
The ball is now in your court to explain why Jesus didnāt have a clue about what he was saying.
Ahhh thats autocorrect.Really sorry meant gnostic.Forgot to edit that
Jesusā resurrected body was a spiritual body, but not a spirit. A zombie? Against common sense? Sure.
Not only is the substance of our physical bodies are part of a natural cycle being reused over and over again by living organisms, but the substance in our bodies is constantly being replaced (all our skin every month and all the atoms of our body every 7 years). so yes it is contrary to all common sense to think our resurrection has anything to do with the substance which went into our graves.
So you would use what Jesus said in order to contradict what Paul said???
What I do embrace all of the Bible into a logically coherent whole. It is the same way we came up with the doctrine of the Trinity which cannot be found anywhere in the Bible. So the resurrected Jesus was not a ghost or a dead spirit but as Paul says a life giving spirit made not of the dust but of heaven with the flesh and bones of a spiritual body and not the flesh of a physical body which Paul says cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
But in any caseā¦ we are getting way off the topic. Which is that our beliefs regarding such matters doesnāt even speak to whether we are Christian, let alone to whether we are saved.
No one said it had the same molecules. You are making that up. The analogy, if you would actually read the chapter you cited, is to a seed. Does what comes from a seed have all the same molecules as the seed? I donāt think so.
Thats gnosticism.The gnostics believed the same thing some at least.That Jesus rose only in spirit.And keep in mind this is 3 days later with oils and such the body is well preserved.We wont be.Plus Thomas was able to touch his wounds
Except you havenāt explained why Jesus said to his disciples that he had flesh and bone. Spirits donāt have flesh and blood. It is extremely convenient for your position for you you to ignore that statement. I just love how people wonāt answer the question that was actually asked of them.
The Gnostics believed a lot of things such as in an evil Demiurge as the creator of the physical world and salvation by knowledge (the belief by which they are named). But I think like Plato they believe in a mental soul (which I do not believe in) rather than a spiritual body as Paul speaks of.
And why did Jesus even have wounds? Are you suggesting that people who were beheaded will have to carry their heads in their hands and those burned in a fire will be blackened skeletons? Was Jesus able to restore his physical body to life but unable to heal his wounds?
I think Jesus had those wounds only because Thomas needed to see them in order to believe. In other words, everything the resurrected Jesus did was only about making them believe so they would go out and preach as He told them to. This is not about zombies rising from the grave. And if we want to know what kind of bodes we have in the resurrection then we should believe what Paul explained in 1 Corinthians 15.
But again this is way way way off topic. You shouldnāt be so traumatized by seeing anyone talking about people believing differently than you do. If you want to believe in zombies that is your business. As crazy as such things sound to me, I will certainly not say that you are going to hell or even that you are not Christian because of this.
Yeah since the idea of zombies came around 17th century i think? Yeah before that sure people didnt believe in a zombily ressurection because thats just fiction right?They were playing them in ancient theaters right?What i mean is your using the word zombi just because it has been invented.Beforethere wasnt a word for that.But again the question is what did the early christians believed
How can you talk about what I did or did not explain when you donāt even finish reading my posts?
Dead spirits and ghosts do not have flesh and bone, but apparently spiritual bodies do, even if it isnāt quite the same as the flesh and blood of physical bodies which cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor 15:50).
Not only Thomas. I think this verse shows that all of them examined his hands and feet. "And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. Luke 24:40
Plus the body was gone from the grave
They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him. 3 Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre. 4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre. 5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in. 6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, Jn 20:2ā6
But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre, 12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain. Jn 20:11ā12
Plus the women held him by his feet. Doesnāt it seem reasonable that they would have noticed if the feet were some sort of nonsolid hologram?
And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him. Matt 28:9
Those spirit feet are more solid than expected.
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And you didnāt understand that Jesus said Spiritual bodies donāt have flesh and boneāspirits dontā have flesh and bone. You seem to want to avoid that issue. You can have the last word on this. I donāt intend to get into a yes it is, no it isnāt kind of back and forth
Yes I understood that Jesus said spirits donāt have flesh and bone and Jesus did not say that spiritual bodies donāt have flesh and bone.
Thatās pretty funny. Was Lazarus raised from the dead? That is not logical, is it, or do you pretend it didnāt happen and it is just figurative? Was he a zombie?
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In effect you did.